Protools what?

[Sir Sam]

Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly is pro tools?
Can someone, sum it up in a nutshell for me?
And how would you use a big mackie style desk with it if pro tools is digital?
Also is it useable for just doing home stuff, is it really that good and why?
Thank you,
Sam.

[sixways]

Protools has long been called the industry standard in audio recording, mainly because it was one of the first of its kind. Now people have several choices, Cubase, Cakewalk, Logic, and etc. They basically all do the same thing...its kinda like cars, they all get you to the same place, but different people like different things about different cars.

I'd go look around at www.protools.com to learn more and download protools free.

As far as your Mackie Mixer, does it have an ADAT out? You'll need to have a Digidesign device or a qualified M-Audio device to use protools. These all have ways to get your mackie mixer info sent into Protools.

For what its worth, I have Protools and I love it. I also had Nuendo and I liked it as well.

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[jonnyc]

Read brotha. If you don't know what pro tools is then you probably have no idea about anything relating to recording. Go to tweakheadz.com and read tweaks guide. Its one of the most helpful places(besides this place of course) and has tons of info about several different types of set ups. I was exactly where you are two years ago. I used to think pro tools was the only real option.

[Ford Van]

Originally Posted by jonnyc

Read brotha. If you don't know what pro tools is then you probably have no idea about anything relating to recording. Go to tweakheadz.com and read tweaks guide. Its one of the most helpful places(besides this place of course) and has tons of info about several different types of set ups. I was exactly where you are two years ago. I used to think pro tools was the only real option.

I totally agree with this post!

[Agent47]

Pro Tools - overrated, overpriced, overmarketed Mac audio software that does a bit of MIDI on the side. Oh, apparently works on PC sometimes too.

If you can put up with the real-time bouncing, lack of true slip editing, inability to create groups, inability to use more than one video file per project and frankly bizarre habit of creating 'fade files', then it might be the software for you...

I can hear the Mac Tools fans fuming from here...

[Feanor IV]

Hmmmm, I use Pro Tools LE and I love it

[bennychico11]

Originally Posted by Agent47

If you can put up with the real-time bouncing, lack of true slip editing, inability to create groups, inability to use more than one video file per project and frankly bizarre habit of creating 'fade files', then it might be the software for you...

glad to see some more incorrect information!!

Pro Tools- overpriced

and ironically, it's cheaper than your software

[Agent47]

OK, LE and M-box versions are cheaper than SX3 or course. But generally, as far as I know, once all the proprietary hardware has been bought, a Pro Tools system will cost more than an equivalent system - for example a similar spec Nuendo set-up.

As far as I know - the points I made are true, but please correct me if I'm wrong:

Bouncing a project's finished mix including plug-ins/automix to a single wav file has to be done in real time.

Real slip editing, as in that used in producing material for radio is not possible. IE. there is no mode where an edit or movement will affect the position of all material before or after that point in the timeline.

It is not possible to create groups of audio segments without creating a new audio material/files.

Pro Tools won't let you open more than one video file to use in a project.

Pro Tools creates fade files.

These are points I've discovered using version 6.2.3, but I'm sure you're a heavier user of this than myself, so do correct me.

Thanks.

[bennychico11]

OK, LE and M-box versions are cheaper than SX3 or course. But generally, as far as I know, once all the proprietary hardware has been bought, a Pro Tools system will cost more than an equivalent system - for example a similar spec Nuendo set-up.

Well, I'm not going to compare it to Nuendo because Nuendo 3 is $2000 right there. You have to understand that you're getting BOTH hardware and software with an LE system. I don't think spending $1200 for an 18 input interfaces with software included is all that bad. I don't think spending $300 for the M-Powered software is that bad. So if they're saying the software costs about $300 alone, and the 002r system is 1200, that actually makes the 002r by itself only $900. Some people would probably still complain about that, but I don't think it's too terrible of a price.
The prices of softare and hardware vary all the time...Pro Tools M-Powered isn't selling at $2000 like Nuendo is. If that WAS the cost of just the software and it was still a "light" version, of course I wouldn't buy it either. But do I expect $2000 software features for when I'm only spending $300??? Hell no.

As far as I know - the points I made are true, but please correct me if I'm wrong:

Bouncing a project's finished mix including plug-ins/automix to a single wav file has to be done in real time.

Real time bouncing came around not only because of the TDM cards and TDM plugins that are processed on the cards, but also because back in the day there weren't a ton of plugins available. Even today, how are you going to use outboard gear with your system if you bounce offline? You can't...none of the outboard effects would be processed. True, sometimes I wish it would be easier to have an offline bounce, but really it's not the #1 thing I'd want them to fix. I can easily just walk away while it's bouncing and not listen to it...or even better, take one last final listen to make sure I got everything and that what I'm bouncing is exactly what the final mix is going to sound like.

Real slip editing, as in that used in producing material for radio is not possible. IE. there is no mode where an edit or movement will affect the position of all material before or after that point in the timeline.

First off, I would never use Pro Tools in a radio station...there are better programs out there suited for that. Programs that are created solely for radio stations.
While there is shuffle mode that is made available, it's even easier to just select all the regions you want to move and use the grabber tool to move them all at once in slip mode.
And if you're meaning that you can't record stuff for radio (ie. commercials) with Pro Tools...you can. I do it all the time.
Pro Tools has a slip mode, we just probably do it a different way than what you Cubase guys do. But I can move my stuff around just as efficiently as you.

It is not possible to create groups of audio segments without creating a new audio material/files.

The word Groups are referred to something else in Pro Tools...not what you are defining them as. Usually we mean Mix Groups when we say that.
I think you're talking about consolidating regions, in PT. Which is really very trivial to complain about. I personally don't consolidate until I'm done with everything because I might like to go back and make more edits. But once I am done, it's nice to render a new file completely of my entire track. That way, if for example, the session got corrupted or something I can easily go to my audio files folder and find the entire track.
Pro Tools does have Region groups though, which does exactly what I think you are talking about.

Pro Tools won't let you open more than one video file to use in a project.

This is true, but I've never found the need for more than one. I don't use Pro Tools to edit video, so I don't need an entire Avid video sequence in my timeline. When video guys are done with the video, that is when I get a final quicktime. Audio is one of the final things that is done to the video after everything is edited accordingly. If there are multiple videos, that usually means there are multiple projects (different TV shows, different commercials, different movies, etc.), so I'll create a new session for that invidiual project. Keeps things more organized in my opinion.

Pro Tools creates fade files.

Again, very trivial in my opinion. I guess I can see the benefit of not having them rendered, but really in an average song the fade files folder is only a couple of MB. In fact I just finished up a 20 minute short film that had probably close to 30-40 tracks and the fade files folder is only 10MB. Not a huge deal considering the entire session is over 2GB.
Plus, if you render the fade to a new file then PT and the computer are just reading the file. As opposed to not rendering it and the computer having to do actual processing on the audio file itself during playback.


Look, I may be a Mac Tools fan (although I run a PC and Pro Tools works 100% for me) but I just don't understand why people feel the need to answer a thread with a Pro Tools question by just bashing the software the entire time. Many times, the answers have nothing to do with the original question and the people answering them have never used the software or maybe touched it once. That's like me complaining about how SUVs get bad gas mileage...but I don't drive one so it doesn't matter.
I don't use Cubase SX...never have, so I don't say anything bad about it. Other people like it, wonderful. I've used Nuendo and didn't like how it was laid out and ended up liking Pro Tools better. I know there are some feautures I wish it had, but I have the right to complain about it because I actually use it.

[Agent47]

Thanks Bennychico for your comments. I'm a light user of PT - I spend more time with engineers who use it. When I was a full time sound engineer in post-pro for TV and radio, I used SADiE, which although a bit basic, I found had all the features you'd want for whatever job you threw at it: You could 'group' segments, which was handy if you were doing a batch of TV ads with different tags - just copy paste, no rendering or file-bouncing. And slip editing ('shuffle' in PT, 'ripple' in Fostex) was handy when making radio programmes, as any edit would affect the length of the final progamme - no having to select everything post-timeline every time. And non real-time bouncing was handy if you had to wav 2hrs of raw dialogue recordings for a computer game. I did pretty much every job you could imagine on that system and found it pretty flexible. Being a relatively new user to Pro Tools, I was a little shocked to find these basic functions were absent in the World's biggest DAW.

A lot of studios that I visit in my current job use PT, and it's funny asking the engineer to bounce a 50min TV prog there and then - I have to have another coffee. Suits me I suppose, gives me time to chill...

Horses for courses really. Sorry, didn't mean to offend your software, it's just annoying that people assume that Pro Tools is the absolute last answer in the world of audio (eg. jonnyc's opening statement), when there are other options out there with better functions.

To be fair though, today, if you asked me to mix a TV prog, I'd pick Pro Tools. The few plug-ins supplied with SADiE are real crappy...

Good luck with your forum!

[KonradG]

Originally Posted by Agent47

Oh, apparently works on PC sometimes too.

I have protools for my mbox... i switched to sonar because IF YOU HAVE WINDOWS, BEWARE!

[Agent47]

KonradG - I work in the audio-post industry, and the vast majority of PT users are Mac based. Some studios use it on PC, but in the audio-post world it's mainly Mac. Personally I'd avoid using PT on a PC.

For my music work at home, which is mainly MIDI and samples, I use Cubase SX3.

[bennychico11]

Originally Posted by Agent47

Sorry, didn't mean to offend your software, it's just annoying that people assume that Pro Tools is the absolute last answer in the world of audio (eg. jonnyc's opening statement), when there are other options out there with better functions.

...and I'll be one of the first people to recommend another program if it would be a better buy for the poster. I don't care what people use. But if you want to recommend another software....recommend one! Don't just post and say "screw pro tools" without saying anything else. Give some other options with prices to help him out!

Personally I'd avoid using PT on a PC.

This I must disagree with whole heartedly. In the past this was the issue when Pro Tools was new to the world of Windows...but my system work on an AMD64 works just as fine as it would on a Mac. I'll admit, Macs can be very powerful machines, but I know PCs better and feel more comfortable with them (plus I like 'em 'cause their cheaper). I can crash a Mac just as easily as I can crash a PC. But then again, maybe it's just computers don't like me.
Pro Tools probably works 99.9% of the time without any issues on my PC. But yes, I am one of the few post people in town that works on a PC.

[Garik]

I used PT on PC, and never had a problem,although i switched to Cubase because of a MIDI issue.

And me likey

[bigwillz24]

I bought Protools M-Powered and installed it on my PC Laptop. No problems besides the user errors from not knowing the program very well.

[emomusician]

is pro tools and the digi 001 or 002 going to produce magical recordings, from the recording gods.. for me?

All my friends that have home studios make fun of me because i don't have pro tools. They say that pro tools is the shiznit, and everything else is crap. They all also use macs, g4's or g5's.

Pro tools users are fine.. I have no beef. I just don't understand why the particular ones i know that use it, think its some sort of miracle maker. Like nothing else can produce results like it. I guess they are just forgetting that pro tools is software, and all the digi is, is just another audio card and interface with a few preamps in it. Maybe PT just has this mystical appeal to it. I dunno...

[bigwillz24]

I asked the same question a while back. I was ranting about how artists expected you to have protools and if you didn't they didn't consider you a real studio.
Same thing with the Triton & Motif.

I'm surprised I haven't recieved a phone call asking if I had a Neumann U87.
Cause you know whatever you're recording won't sound good unless it's done with a U87.

[billyshuler]

Pro tools is a requirement for recording. I thought everyone knew that.

[emomusician]

We need to band together and create a new standard. Hell, I was gonna give PT a try last night with the free version.. it won't even work in XP. "You must have Windows 98se or Higher", what kind of crap is that?

[SonicAlbert]

I've never once had anyone say they needed to deliver a song to me in SX3 or Nuendo format, but ProTools all the time. Like it or not, if you do any amount of post production work with commercial studios and post houses you are going to be using ProTools. That's the format they want to receive and to deliver.

I use Digital Performer for my own composing/scoring, but always have PT available to interface with the rest of the world.

As far as the original poster's question: If PT appeals to you, then by all means get it. However, if you are planning to work on your own home studio stuff and aren't going to be swapping files with commercial studios/post houses, then you really do a have more choices since compatibility is not an issue. Take a look at everything out there and then make your choice.

My brother is a music hobbiest, and a few years ago I put together a small ProTools setup for him. He loves it. So you don't have to be a heavy industry type engineer to enjoy using it.

Each DAW has it's own interface and style of working. The key is to check them out enough to know which one appeals to you.

[sixways]

Originally Posted by emomusician

We need to band together and create a new standard. Hell, I was gonna give PT a try last night with the free version.. it won't even work in XP. "You must have Windows 98se or Higher", what kind of crap is that?

Uh, I don't know of any other big names giving their stuff out for free anymore either. "what about Cubase LE?"...what about it? You can't download it for free, it comes bundled with hardware too.

Protools works just fine for me in Windows. Its all a matter of personal taste!

A ford exploerer will get you to the exact same places as a Mercedes SUV...its just a matter of preference.

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[emomusician]

oh, well cubase does have a demo doesn't it? I just want to try it out before I jump ship. I'm not spending 500 or more on hardware, and then I hate the DAW.

[sixways]

You can download a demo of M-Powered Protools provided you have an compatible M-Audio device.

That's what I did before I jumped ship on it.

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[emomusician]

lol where does that leave us people who don't have the hardware.. and the whole reason i'm not buying the hardware.. is because i haven't been able to see if i like the software.. I'm forced to use with it.

[sixways]

So what hardware do you have?

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