Studio build to begin.. but help with soffits

[Velvet Elvis]

Hey all...

Well its finally come to be that time. My wife and I are starting construction on our basement in a few weeks.

Part of the basement is the studio area... YIPPEEE!!!

I do have a couple of questions though for you experts:

1) The outer walls exist already (2x4 with insulation up against concrete foundation). I was going to put the additional walls on top of rubber padding to cut down on sound transfer between rooms, but is this necessary?

2) My ceiling is constructed of I-beams... there are rooms above it... the ceiling height is 8ft to the bottom of the beam... how best can I seal up the ceiling for sound? Also, the I-beams sit on top of the concrete foundation, which also means that is where the first floor framing starts... I sense this will be a very difficult place to soundproof, as its not easy to get to. Any ideas?

3) I have non-powered Event 20/20's... I was planning on soffit mounting them, but I'm not quite sure how to handle doing it. As you can see from the drawing, I've got clearances that are not uniform behind the added wall.. will this make a difference in how it sounds?

4) The 20/20's have jacks on the back for the speaker cable... how can I have a sealed box and deal with the cables?

5) Should the walls behind the soffit be completed.. IE - drywalled and taped/mudded and then the walls built for the soffits, or does it matter?

6) lastly... with the ceiling height of 8 feet... what height should I be considering for putting the soffits in (assuming I don't want them angled towards the floor)

Ok... one MORE thing... how do the angles of the room look? I gave the architect a drawing from John Sayers, but that doesn't mean he got the angles right

Sorry for the questions, I'm just REALLY nervous about starting the construction.

Jim
(Velvet Elvis)

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

2) My ceiling is constructed of I-beams... there are rooms above it... the ceiling height is 8ft to the bottom of the beam... how best can I seal up the ceiling for sound? Also, the I-beams sit on top of the concrete foundation, which also means that is where the first floor framing starts... I sense this will be a very difficult place to soundproof, as its not easy to get to. Any ideas?

Well Elvis, after 4 years lets continue

I only have a little time to address ONE question for now. Here are a couple of ideas for cieling iso and construction. One expensive, and one SUPER expensive I'll be back later.
fitZ

[Velvet Elvis]

Rick,

Yeah... I was thinking something like the first drawing.. hehehe...

I know its been 4 years... don't remind me... I keep getting older and older and older and this thing drags on and on, but FINALLY its going to start taking shape.

Jim

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

I keep getting older and older and older and this thing drags on and on,

In my case, dragging on is a massive understatement.

[frederic]

Originally Posted by RICK FITZPATRICK

In my case, dragging on is a massive understatement.

And in contrast, I received a check in the mail today for prepayment of a project I am to master.

Cool

[Velvet Elvis]

frederic... go away You don't have to rub it in our faces.. hehehe

Actually, I'm really happy to be under way with the studio build... but boy, I must be honest in saying that I am scared beyond all believe of messing it up.

I want to be able to do bass and drums and if I don't build it right, it will be a whole lot of money down the drain.

Jim

[mshilarious]

Why the angle between the control and live room walls? Is that just to be nice to the builder and give 'em a right angle? 'Cause I don't see the harm in reclaiming a few extra sq ft for the live room.

[mshilarious]

Originally Posted by Velvet Elvis

3) I have non-powered Event 20/20's... I was planning on soffit mounting them, but I'm not quite sure how to handle doing it. As you can see from the drawing, I've got clearances that are not uniform behind the added wall.. will this make a difference in how it sounds?

4) The 20/20's have jacks on the back for the speaker cable... how can I have a sealed box and deal with the cables?

5) Should the walls behind the soffit be completed.. IE - drywalled and taped/mudded and then the walls built for the soffits, or does it matter?

Are these rear ported or something? I don't think the cavities should matter too much, just stuff 'em with lots of insulation. As for cable holes, make 'em small, then seal 'em up. I believe you want unfinished cavities, otherwise you'd have that dreaded four leaves

[frederic]

Originally Posted by Velvet Elvis

frederic... go away You don't have to rub it in our faces.. hehehe

I used to have a friend named Jim... once

Originally Posted by Velvet Elvis

Actually, I'm really happy to be under way with the studio build... but boy, I must be honest in saying that I am scared beyond all believe of messing it up.

Why? Your old studio was turning out wonderful. You know the drill... plan plan plan and build once, just like you did before.

I'd offer to help but I violated all of the rules in building mine. I got lucky that without acoustical treatments, it's "reasonable". I think because of all the weirdo angles and slanted ceilings everywhere.

[Velvet Elvis]

Originally Posted by mshilarious

Why the angle between the control and live room walls? Is that just to be nice to the builder and give 'em a right angle? 'Cause I don't see the harm in reclaiming a few extra sq ft for the live room.

I think that was basically to give a little more airspace since the room next to the control room is for drums... mass + air space = better isolation

Originally Posted by mshilarious

Are these rear ported or something? I don't think the cavities should matter too much, just stuff 'em with lots of insulation. As for cable holes, make 'em small, then seal 'em up. I believe you want unfinished cavities, otherwise you'd have that dreaded four leaves

No.. these are not rear ported speakers, I was just following the design from John Sayers site. I think I'd actually wind up with 3 leaves... concrete, drywall and then the face of the soffits. That being said, the soffits will have bass traps below them and isulation stuffed in the cavity above them, so its not quite a full leaf, is it?

This is EXACTLY the type of thing I want to get figured out... unfortunately I only have 1 week to do it before the framers are here. I'm having the whole basement done at once (there is another 1000 sq ft that is not studio), which is why its all of the sudden a concern.

Originally Posted by frederic

I used to have a friend named Jim... once

Awww... I'm still your friend... jealous that you are done with your studio while I'm still stressing every little detail of mine... but still your friend!

I'm more worried about this studio because its a ground up build... the old studio was just a room I took over in my old house that happened to work... this one NEEDS to work as its part of the whole reason I built this house and I don't plan on moving again for a looooong time.

Jim

[lomky]

I read on John's site that the 20/20's were one of the speaker designs that were successfully soffited. I wasn't able to find a specific thread about them, but it was john that said it so I would assume it was his design.

I feel your terror man. Even though I'm not quite ready to build yet, and me and my father are contractors. I'm trying to learn as much as possible, but the minute I think "I think I understand that, that makes sense" some other info comes along to knock down my house-o-cards.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

I'm more worried about this studio because its a ground up build...

What are you worried about Jim? You've had 4 years to plan it Now just follow the plan (just kiddin with ya) I am wondering about your iso plans. What are you trying to accomplish isolation wise? If high SPL isolation is in the plan, to what extent are you addressing Low frequency transmission and how? I only ask because this is a "ground up" build. When you say that, I was wondering what you are doing to isolate/decouple the different room floors from each other. Or are you?

fitZ

[Velvet Elvis]

"you've had 4 years to plan...."... wise guy... hehe

Isolation wise with the floor, I'm not doing anything. Its an existing slab in the basement, for personal (band) recording use.

From the floor to 8 feet high (where the I-beams are) is solid concrete wall (foundation). The foundation is about 80% or greater below grade.

Given the small size of the room, and the fact that its already poured cement floor, I didn't think I would be able to do much isolation wise with the floor.

The framing of each room (with the exception obviously of each frame touching a common cement floor) is completely isolated.

High isolation is what I would like... enough to record drums, bass, guitar and vocals without bothering the neighbors (and if at all possible, the people in my own house).

I am planning on 2 layers of drywall on the inside and ceilings of each room.

I've thought about floating the drums on a riser and possibly building a decoupling riser for the bass guitar amp and guitar amps... this seems more reasonable than floating a whole room and would accomplish the same thing, right?

My fear is getting this thing put together and realizing that I've wasted a bunch of time and money and have a room that's little better than just some standard built bedroom. Yikes!!!

Jim

[mshilarious]

Originally Posted by Velvet Elvis

My fear is getting this thing put together and realizing that I've wasted a bunch of time and money and have a room that's little better than just some standard built bedroom. Yikes!!!

Breathe, man. It's gonna be better than a bedroom. That is what, STC 35? I'm pretty sure you can hit 50, maybe 55. Higher than that, I dunno.

I am convinced from my amateurish efforts that keeping sound out is a much bigger problem than keeping it in. It's the same problem, but 40dB in your living room is no big deal, while 40dB in your studio is a potential disaster.

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Hey Jim, I know where you are coming from. I was just teasing you. If anyone knows about a project dragging on its me Hell, I'm still finishing my console...after 10 years

The important thing to remember is the more isolation, the more treatment(absorption). Especially very small rooms. Actually, bedrooms allow sound to escape via transmission through the envelope, which makes it easier to treat. Its when you hold sound IN the room(reflections off of stiff MASS) that you really need bass traps and broadband absorption. Have you already planned your treatment?

[frederic]

Originally Posted by Velvet Elvis

Awww... I'm still your friend... jealous that you are done with your studio while I'm still stressing every little detail of mine... but still your friend!

I'm just sarcastically breaking balls. Mine's not done anyway, I still have to solder most of the patch bays and install moulding at the base of the walls. I at least painted it, and after it dried, made a pile

Originally Posted by Velvet Elvis

I'm more worried about this studio because its a ground up build... the old studio was just a room I took over in my old house that happened to work... this one NEEDS to work as its part of the whole reason I built this house and I don't plan on moving again for a looooong time.

My wife keeps mentioning we need more space, which I find astounding considering it's her, me, a 1 y/o boy, and two cats. 3300 sq feet is more than enough. Plus it's just more space to squirrel crap we'll never use.

[Velvet Elvis]

I haven't planned specifics on treatment, but here is what I am thinking:

Control Room:

1) Soffit mounted speakers with bass traps below them and slat wall between them
2) DEAD rear wall - clothed covered 703 probably or auralex (I've got a ton of it laying around)
3) 4 703 clouds above the mix position angled so that two panels angle towards the front wall and two towards the back wall
4) Pergo flooring

Drum Room:

1) Drum on riser or at minimum on rug
2) Pergo floor

Not sure what trapping the room will need yet (its the room on the upper right of the plan)

Vocal Room:

1) Pergo floor
2) Aurelex foam on walls - not covering entire wall, just spaced out
3) 2 703 panels on ceiling

This room is the one on the lower right of the plan


Does that sound like I'm heading in the right direction? Its going to be hard I think to really know until the spaces are up and I can make some noise in them.

Jim

[Velvet Elvis]

Originally Posted by frederic

My wife keeps mentioning we need more space, which I find astounding considering it's her, me, a 1 y/o boy, and two cats. 3300 sq feet is more than enough. Plus it's just more space to squirrel crap we'll never use.

Yeah... my house is only 1648 sq. ft. ... and that's me, my wife and ***4*** kids.

That being said, its a ranch, so the basement (where the studio is) will actually be another 1500 sq. ft.

I also had the area above the garage and master suite done with attic truses and converted that into my office and the kids playroom... another 500 sq. ft.

Total useable square footage is ~3500 sq. ft. Not bad considering what we paid for the house when we built it. The street next to us is selling comparable size houses without the bonus room... and they are going for $45,000 more than we paid 3 years ago.

Face it freddie my boy... the REAL reason she wants to move is she doesn't like the color you painted the studio!!! hehehe

Jim

[frederic]

Originally Posted by Velvet Elvis

Yeah... my house is only 1648 sq. ft. ... and that's me, my wife and ***4*** kids.

Wow. Where do you put all your car parts?

Originally Posted by Velvet Elvis

That being said, its a ranch, so the basement (where the studio is) will actually be another 1500 sq. ft.

We have a basement too, it's 30x40ish. 1/2 of it is finished, which my wife uses as a pantry, and the other half has a washer, dryer, the furnace and pool heater stuff, a workbench I just stack things on, and several racks of servers. The whole thing is an unorganized pit of sloppyness.

Originally Posted by Velvet Elvis

I also had the area above the garage and master suite done with attic truses and converted that into my office and the kids playroom... another 500 sq. ft.

That's cool. And the same reason why I took the garage loft over for the studio - it was free unsable space when we moved in.

Originally Posted by Velvet Elvis

Total useable square footage is ~3500 sq. ft. Not bad considering what we paid for the house when we built it. The street next to us is selling comparable size houses without the bonus room... and they are going for $45,000 more than we paid 3 years ago.

That's the one cool thing about real estate. The house immediately to my right sold for what I paid for my house - 2 years later - and it has 1/2 the square footage, a single garage instead of two, 1/2 the property and no inground pool. Except his taxes are less than mine by far. What I pay in property taxes now, equals rent of my old two bedroom apartment. For what I pay, the garbage men better start taking what I put out to the street, then lick the garbage cans clean afterwards.

Originally Posted by Velvet Elvis

Face it freddie my boy... the REAL reason she wants to move is she doesn't like the color you painted the studio!!! hehehe

Actually it's because we've run out of bedrooms. Technically our house has three bedrooms plus the studio. Now that we have a child, the "guest bedroom" for her father to come visit is no longer available, as the third bedroom is her "office". As much as my father in law is a cool guy, I'm not into buying a bigger house just so he can sack here 2 weeks a year.

If anything, I need a bigger garage so I pull my crewcab inside and work on it when it's not raining or snowing *AND* have room for all the machinery. I replaced the clutch over the Xmas holiday and it rained almost every day. There is very little as unpleasant as lying on your back, moving around very heavy, very greasy parts, while running water flows all around you being absorbed by your clothing.

Well, almost as unpleasant as opening the hydraulic line and your face getting most of it, while moving around very heavy, very greasy parts while running water flows all around you being absorbed by your clothing