Metal (Death Metal) Guitars...Help!!!

[Bloodsoaked]

I have tried everything to get a good death metal sound recorded into my computer and I just can not get it right. I have tried, more distortion, less distortion, more mids, less mids, less lows, more lows and so on.

I am running two mics to my Marshall MG Series 250DFX and then into my Behringer Eurorack UB802 Mixer. I have tried EQing it with the mixer as well as leaving the mixer "flat" and recording and then EQing with the software.

I need some help from a few that are willing to keep helping till I can get it. Maybe some metal heads out there that have been doing this for a while and are will to help out. PLEASE!!!!!

[jonnyc]

Before we get all technical with different things you can do try double tracking your guitars. Get it real tight and it should sound at least a little better.

[Bloodsoaked]

Originally Posted by jonnyc

Before we get all technical with different things you can do try double tracking your guitars. Get it real tight and it should sound at least a little better.

Hey jonnyc, I have done that as well. Still not a good sound. If you like I can record two tracks tomorrow and post them online, then maybe after you listen to the sound you could give me some feedback as to what to try next.

I don't want to make drastic changes, I have been trying to make small changes here and there but it does not seem to be working.

Any help would be great, thank you...

[Dogman]

Does the guitar sound like what you want when you play it? (meaning the live sound). And also, what are you striving for? Do you have an example? I know that Metalhead has gotten some awesome sounds lately, for his Death Metal project. I think a big portion is as jonnyc says...you got to be tight. Double or quad track it, and pan. Still might take some eq, but it shouldn't take too much, if you are getting a good sound out of your amp.

[Bloodsoaked]

Originally Posted by Dogman

Does the guitar sound like what you want when you play it? (meaning the live sound). And also, what are you striving for? Do you have an example? I know that Metalhead has gotten some awesome sounds lately, for his Death Metal project. I think a big portion is as jonnyc says...you got to be tight. Double or quad track it, and pan. Still might take some eq, but it shouldn't take too much, if you are getting a good sound out of your amp.

Yeah, I am getting a good sound from my amp from a distince (standing a few feet away). The guitar sound next to the cab/speaker is not that great. I am not sure if it should be great no matter where I am standing.

[Dogman]

Originally Posted by Bloodsoaked

Yeah, I am getting a good sound from my amp from a distince (standing a few feet away). The guitar sound next to the cab/speaker is not that great. I am not sure if it should be great no matter where I am standing.

All the really good sounds I hear, are close mic'd, as far as I know. When I mic my amp, I do it right next to the grill. My amp sux, so my sound needs tons of work, so I usually use my POD.

Do you use 2 different mic's or are they the same? If you record 2 tracks at once, try panning them to one side, and record a second set, and pan them opposite. If the playing is pretty tight, it should end up sounding pretty big.

I usually just end up doing one take left, and one right. I don't play so tight, so 4 tracks can sound muddy for me. Pan them 50-75% to each side, and try that. I don't really do much fast Death stuff, but have a few samples if you are interested. I can tell you how I get those sounds, if you like it.
Ed

[Bloodsoaked]

Decapitated Song 3

Originally Posted by Dogman

And also, what are you striving for? Do you have an example?

I sould love to get something close to this (Decapitated)

Decapitated Song 1

Decapitated Song 2

Decapitated Song 3

These slips are from three different albums but the guitar sound is very similar on all three. Let me know what you think.

[Bloodsoaked]

Originally Posted by Dogman

Do you use 2 different mic's or are they the same? If you record 2 tracks at once, try panning them to one side, and record a second set, and pan them opposite. If the playing is pretty tight, it should end up sounding pretty big.

I use two Behringer XM8500 Microphones. One is pointed straing ahea and the other is angeled at 45 degrees. Both are about 2 inches from the front of the cab. Both mics are used to make one guitar track.

Originally Posted by Dogman

I don't really do much fast Death stuff, but have a few samples if you are interested. I can tell you how I get those sounds, if you like it. Ed

Yeah, that would be cool if I could listen to your samples. Let me know whre I can download them from.

[Dogman]

Do you have any samples of your stuff?
Here is something we did....Weed

It's pretty tounge in cheek stuff......we seem to be doing several songs about Yard tools.
The sound is pretty straight forward...1 guitar left, 1 right...about 75%, so there is some overlap.
You might try placing your mic's closer to your grill, and see what happens. Also, if you use 2 mics, keep them as seperate tracks, and put them in your program as 2 seperate mono tracks. Say, both left, and maybe one 100% left, then the other 75%. And then do another take, and do the same to the right. You will need to experiment, and see if you can get the desired sound.

these are just some starting points, as everything is different.

[Bloodsoaked]

Originally Posted by Dogman

Do you have any samples of your stuff?
Here is something we did....Weed

I have posted three guitar tracks here: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page...?bandID=481840

If anyone is willing to take a listen and give some feedback that would be great. The three guitar tracks were recorded with one mic into my mixer. I lowered the Lo on the mixer a bit as I was getting allot of low end. I did NOT EQ the guitar tracks at all. Any and all advice would be great.

PS...Dogman, I liked the guitar sound you got.

[sixways]

I'd add a room mic...about 10-15 feet back, preferably a condenser. I'd probably also add a bit of reverb or delay.

What you've got really doesn't sound bad, just kinda dull. You may want to use the BBE Sonic Maximizer plug in (if you're using software) or an aural exciter.

Something else I would do....is go to www.guitargeek.com and check out some of the death metal players rigs. You'll note, that several of them use different distortion pedals in front of their amps...which boosts their saturation.

Remember, if you ears like what you hear in your room, but don't like what you capture on tape, you've got a mic placement or poor mic choice.

6

[Dogman]

I agree that your clips sound pretty decent, actually. It's way better than my amp sounds. Double or quad them, really tight, and see what happens. Then you might use the methods sixways mentions.
Ed

[Bloodsoaked]

Originally Posted by Dogman

I agree that your clips sound pretty decent, actually. It's way better than my amp sounds. Double or quad them, really tight, and see what happens. Then you might use the methods sixways mentions.
Ed

Would just making a second and third copy of the first guitar track work? Then maybe EQ them a bit different? Or should all the guitar track be played seperatly?

[sixways]

The kings of the Riff (Wylde, Cantrell, Etc) record several tracks of guitars. I've tried copying and eq'ing different and it can come close...if you do, just watch out for phase issues, you may want to reverse the phase on one side...put a bit of delay on it too.

I really think you'll help yourself tremedously if you'd add a room mic to your current set up...guitar sound changes and becomes fuller as it gets away from the speaker cone...and adding that second mic may put a bit more presence in your sound.

Are you recording loud? Loud enough to have feedback while you're tracking? Crank that b**ch and mic your room.

6

[Bloodsoaked]

Originally Posted by sixways

What you've got really doesn't sound bad, just kinda dull. You may want to use the BBE Sonic Maximizer plug in (if you're using software) or an aural exciter.

What do you mean by dull? Do these plug-ins work really good? Are there many free ones that are worth looking at? Thank you...

[Bloodsoaked]

Originally Posted by sixways

I've tried copying and eq'ing different and it can come close...if you do, just watch out for phase issues, you may want to reverse the phase on one side...put a bit of delay on it too.

Phase issues? Huh? I am a total newbie. How would I reverse the phase on one side? What would that do?

Originally Posted by sixways

I really think you'll help yourself tremedously if you'd add a room mic to your current set up...guitar sound changes and becomes fuller as it gets away from the speaker cone...and adding that second mic may put a bit more presence in your sound.

Are you recording loud? Loud enough to have feedback while you're tracking? Crank that b**ch and mic your room.

So one mic up close to the amp and the other in the room where it sounds the best to me? The amp is not that loud. It is at a good level just not wicked loud. No feedback at all.

[sixways]

I honestly don't know enough to speak educated on the phase issue either...just if it sounds funny, reverse the phase. What software are you using?

Dull = lacking in presence and brightness.

You're going to have to crank that amp to get a good metal sound at least loud enough to feedback...think about it, your a 'death metal' guitarist...so, you should be a wild ax-slinging madman...it should be all you can do to fight back the gain on your amp...fighting the feedback. Mic your amp with a decent instrument mic (SM57) pushed right up against the grill cloth, directed at the edge of the cone....now...start walking backwards...find a place in the room where your amp sounds really great to you....put a condenser mic there. Peferably about ear level and 10-15 feet back from your amp.

The programs I mentioned will help you, to a degree, but if you get that bad boy sounding great going in...you may not even need them.

6

[Fade]

I don't think it is too bad. I would venture a guess that the only way you are going to see a big improvement is to get higher end gear. You say you are running a bunch of Behringer stuff. Behringer might be ok for messing around at home demoing stuff but it you are serious I would think about upgrading. I have found that getting a good guitar tone is all about good preamps. We just got one of THESE and it is the best piece of equipment ever!!! But it isn't cheap. Awesome preamp and the compressor and EQ in it are great.

I guess you should try it just in case, but I doubt you will get anything but a washed out sound out of a room mic.

[Dogman]

Originally Posted by Bloodsoaked

Would just making a second and third copy of the first guitar track work? Then maybe EQ them a bit different? Or should all the guitar track be played seperatly?

I wouldn't cut and paste. It should be easy enough to record 2 or more tracks. Then they should have just enough differences to fatten the sound up. With lots of tracks layered, you might have to cut some mid frequencies, as they could build up a little and steal some high end from the overall sound. It's all dependant. Lot's of experimentation.

Here is 2 guitars, panned fairly hard. You can hear it thicken up whenever there is 2, and how it gets thin with just one. Shitpile... With only 2 guitars, panned pretty hard, I didn't have to eq them.

[sixways]

Originally Posted by Fade

I guess you should try it just in case, but I doubt you will get anything but a washed out sound out of a room mic.

Why's that?

6

[Bloodsoaked]

Originally Posted by Dogman

I wouldn't cut and paste. It should be easy enough to record 2 or more tracks. Then they should have just enough differences to fatten the sound up. With lots of tracks layered, you might have to cut some mid frequencies, as they could build up a little and steal some high end from the overall sound. It's all dependant. Lot's of experimentation.

For your second track do you use the same mic placement and amp settings or keep everything the same?

Originally Posted by Dogman

Here is 2 guitars, panned fairly hard. You can hear it thicken up whenever there is 2, and how it gets thin with just one. Shitpile... With only 2 guitars, panned pretty hard, I didn't have to eq them.

WOW!!! I love the 3rd guitar sound (distorted). It is great!!! That is two guitar tracks, one panned left and one right. What a difference the second track makes. Even the one track of the distorted guitar sound 100X better than what I am getting. I am impressed...

[Bloodsoaked]

Originally Posted by Dogman

I wouldn't cut and paste. It should be easy enough to record 2 or more tracks. Then they should have just enough differences to fatten the sound up.

WOUld this be the same for vocals (death metal vocals, not sure if it matters)? Better to record two or three tracks than copy and paste the first vocal track?

[Dogman]

I would try and use teh same settings, if you only do 2 tracks. If you do more, you might try some different settings, or mic placements. I just find that for myself, I can't play tight enough to use 4 tracks....it just gets muddy. I usually do 2, and them just pan them. As far as vocals, I generally just use one vocal track, but my style of music can use that well. I have experimented with double takes, and also cutting and pasting, with delay and eq. It works for certain things. But generally, just some eq to cut out any boominess, and some chorus or delay plus reverb seems to work for me.

[Bloodsoaked]

I will give it a try tomorrow and I will post some clips tomorrow. Thank you.

[Fade]

Originally Posted by sixways

Why's that?

6

Because everytime I have tried using a distant mic to record anything that is the result. I usually only ever setup a distant mic for drums, so guitar might get different results, but I can't think of any reason why it would be different. I suppose the room itself will make a big difference in the exact sound you get, but unless you have a super dead room you are going to get tons of reflected sound off every surface in the room and it is going to make a muddy, distant, echoy sound. I am going to record later today so maybe I'll do some tests. If the result is good I'll gladly eat my words, but I'm pretty skeptical.