Mic distance (condensor) for recording vocals

[ssman]

I have a marshall v67g. When I record vocals 1-2 feet away, it sounds really harsh, congested, thin, not resonant, etc. It doesn't sound real. When I record from 4-5 feet away and put the gain pretty high up on my preamp it sounds more real, and better.

I've tried playing with the preamp a lot, for 2 weeks, at 1-2 feet (as this is suppose to be the proper distance?) but I keep getting that same terrible sound. (gain & drive controls on presonus tubepre)

Problem at the farther distance is for pronunciation to be recorded accurately, I have to put the gain really high. When I go into higher pitches though, this causes it to clip severely.

[scrubs]

Originally Posted by ssman

I have a marshall v67g. When I record vocals 1-2 feet away, it sounds really harsh, congested, thin, not resonant, etc. It doesn't sound real. When I record from 4-5 feet away and put the gain pretty high up on my preamp it sounds more real, and better.

I've tried playing with the preamp a lot, for 2 weeks, at 1-2 feet (as this is suppose to be the proper distance?) but I keep getting that same terrible sound. (gain & drive controls on presonus tubepre)

Problem at the farther distance is for pronunciation to be recorded accurately, I have to put the gain really high. When I go into higher pitches though, this causes it to clip severely.

Use whatever works for you. Learning to "work" the mic will help, too (backing off/turning away when you get louder). Personally, I am almost always 4-8 inches away, but that's for mellow ballads where I want the breathiness and proximity effect of being closer.

[up-fiddler]

Originally Posted by ssman

I've tried playing with the preamp a lot, for 2 weeks, at 1-2 feet (as this is suppose to be the proper distance?) but I keep getting that same terrible sound. (gain & drive controls on presonus tubepre)

Where does the signal go after the mic pre? Into a board? Into the computer? Have you tried turning up the gain AFTER leaving the presonus?

[RAMI]

I'm not an expert on this one, but it seems to me that having to stand more than 2 feet away to do vocals is pretty far. If you clip when you sing closer, that might be because something else (trim pots, pre-amp input or output?) might be too hot.

[ssman]

Where does the signal go after the mic pre? Into a board? Into the computer? Have you tried turning up the gain AFTER leaving the presonus?

Hi thanks for advice so far. I read through the emu 1212m manual (computer soundcard). It said that for best quality the input should be set at a gain so that the peak meter is in the "yellow" region. This starts at -10. If I then set the level for gain higher in the soundcard, the main mix meter goes into red.
?

[demensia]

You could pad the mic or the presonus.. But your situation seems abnormally loud.. I was using an AT 3035 with that preamp, and I set the drive first, somewhere around 10:00, and then upped the gain until I got into the area where at my loudest points showed a few hairs under the red on my PC mixer (delta 44). I completly ignored the meters on the presonus. Don't know if that helps. Also after toying with the microphone and getting thin, unclear sounds I realized... I hung the cardiod mic backwards... Turning it around made a huge difference.. heh.. I used to think that all LDC's were omni... That was before this scenario and reading harvey's mic thread.

Eh.. Did that have anything to do with your post?

[ssman]

As I had said, I played with the gain and drive a whole lot at several distances.

More clearly I guess, when I'm singing at low volumes, I can get close to the mic and it sounds decent. Still pretty crappy compared to the crystal clear, perfect warmth, just right distance sound of professional recorded studio stuff.

But when I get louder I have to manually put the gain down. It sounds better than otherwise. But if I get 4 feet back, it sounds much more clear. I've tried using the several types of compressors on the emu 1212m, but it gets the ugly characteristics I've described before really severely.

I live in Hayward, CA. Is there someone I can get to come over and diagnose and make experienced recommendations for maybe 30/40 bucks? There's so many factors involved it will take me maybe a month of intense reading to figure everything out, Equipment types, room treatments, software, etc. That's not possible for me right now. I'm willing to spend up to $700 more dollars if I can get a really good sound.

[flamin-gitaur]

Are you using a pop filter? That could help smoothe things out a tad.
What condensor are you using?

[chris-from-ky]

I've never recorded vocals more than 1 foot away from the mic. With a pop filter in place, I may only be 6-8 inches from the mic. I have however recorded other people at distances of 2-3 feet away and the difference was I could tell he was far away from the mic. I'd say the harshness you refer to is more like dryness because more of the source is entering the mic before the reflections are. If that makes any sense.

[giraffe]

i've seen singers go from 6 inches to 4 feet away........ in the verse.

if the mic is too harsh when your up close, then unfortunately it's just the wrong mic for your voice. if getting a new mic is not practical then try a de-esser or an eq to tame the sound.
there’s nothing wrong with singing 4feet away from your mic, but i'd be willing to bet that a lot of what your hearing is room sound at that point.....
and that may be what you like about it, so be it. but this is possibly one of those (very rare actually) examples of where equipment is the problem.

[mixsit]

Originally Posted by ssman

...I've tried playing with the preamp a lot, for 2 weeks, at 1-2 feet (as this is suppose to be the proper distance?) but I keep getting that same terrible sound. (gain & drive controls on presonus tubepre)

One of those (gain or drive) is blending the tube distortion in. For the widest clean dynamic, I'd try try dialing the tube effect completely out. At that point you should be able to find a level with plenty of clean head room.
Wayne

[treymonfauntre]

gain is the good knob, drive is the bad knob.

[gatholonobs]

Using a compressor can even out your levels and boost presence. A really expensive tube prechannel would be ideal. However most project studios are on a budget. My onboards(VS1880/VS8F-3) are excellent. I also use an ART "Levelar" tube processor. Vocals are usually far too dynamic to attempt to record with out using some form of compressor.

[LeeRosario]

I hate to tell you this but I myself am an owner of a V67, and it does have its shortcommings.


Presence on the 67 does have its limits. The highend is shrill for this mic, which can further be emphasised by the preamp and the nature of digital itself.


The reason you are feeling a better response at 4 feet is because high end is rolled off quite a bit at that distance. However, you've also killed all your proxtimity effect as well. So if you really want to get up close to this kind of mic, you might very well have to cycle through a few different types of pop filters.

Dare I even say, maybe even add a second pop filter to tame the shrill. A good preamp would make this mic sing a little better. Perhaps singing off axis is another approach.


But that's just the thing, certain mics exsist because of thier outstanding close miking performance, I wouldn't really say the V67 is typically that sort of mic. Sorry to say.

However, if you do manage to tame this mic in your own way, it can be rather pleasant to work with.

[Little Silas]

I noticed a reference to a pop filter.
Mine are made from my wife's old nylon hose (leg part guys) and a coat hanger bent to a 6" circle with the left over part shaped to mount on a mic stand (pipe clamp, wire ties, etc.).