Compression during drum tracking.....COMMON PRACTICE???

[pappy999]

I was thinking about putting some compression on the snare and kick drum during my next tracking session to try to even out hits a little. Is this a common practice?

[Fletcher]

Unfotunately it's a bit too common... and usually performed with crap compressors that are overused [which makes the product a real bitch to mix].

I would recommend that if you absolutely feel the need to compress the drums to do it at a point after the recording process when you can pay full attention to the compression [and it's actions/reactions to the material played].

When you're tracking you have many things on which you will need to concentrate. #1 is the feel of the performance... #2 is the texture of the performance and how it relates to the texture(s) of the song... #3 is the overall sound of the drums and #4 is if every hit is of quasi-equal volume. If you focus on "#4" during the recording you could miss some very important stuff as it relates to "#2" and "#3".

Two things you might want to think about that might change your perspective on recording in general... the first is that a recording studio is an instrument that takes years to learn to play [like any other instrument takes years to learn to play]; the second is that like any other instrument; once you know how to do something it doesn't mean you should necessarily do it. You know you're an engineer when you know what all the knobs do but can make really good product by touching as few of them as humanly possible.

Best of luck with it.

[Robert D]

Originally Posted by Fletcher

Two things you might want to think about that might change your perspective on recording in general... the first is that a recording studio is an instrument that takes years to learn to play [like any other instrument takes years to learn to play]; the second is that like any other instrument; once you know how to do something it doesn't mean you should necessarily do it. You know you're an engineer when you know what all the knobs do but can make really good product by touching as few of them as humanly possible.

Best of luck with it.

Nice

Pappy - Definetly experiment with compression, but it's really better to preserve the full dynamics during recording and then non-destructavely add compression during mixdown. By non-destructively I mean don't overwrite the original tracks. You might find a sound you like while tweaking the drums as a group or solo'd, and then find later it doesn't work in the mix.

[Kronpox]

Unless you're able to record the drum tracks onto separate tracks for each part of the kit, then post-recording compression will not give you your desired effect, as it would compress the entire kit with the same settings. So if this is what you're stuck with, then compress during recording, but spend a while making sure it sounds good as a kit.

[Massive Master]

I used to use a little mild compression on the way in... But ever since 24-bit has become the standard, there really is no reason for it unless it's for a particular effect - And even then, I normally won't bother and just take care of it later.

[PhiloBeddoe]

I think a good rule of thumb is that if you're absolutely positive you have the sound you want using a compressor (or eq) while recording, then go ahead and do it. But - it requires a lot of experience to have that confidence. I prefer to add compression later.

Having badly set and/or cheap compression sounds can break your recording, so it's risky unless you know what you're doing.

[dr.colossus]

- In fact its probably better to add the drums after the recording as well. Try and record blank tracks with nothing on them, then you can cut and paste a sample where the missing drum tracks are, this way your sure to get the right sound!

Sorry, I'm not usually sarcastic, but I do think its a good idea to experiment on the way in. I'm nowhere near as experienced as Fletcher or Massive, but I think its nice to catch the sound to tape (HD/ADAT/whatever). Setting up the compression is as important a part of the sound as picking the right mic, the right pre and the right drum, and you can;t do any of those sfter you've recorded. I find that it helps my mixes to have most of the work done before i push the faders, and when your working with a limited amount of outboard gear it makes the luxury of series compression more available. My two cents

[Massive Master]

I see your point, but well-played drums rarely require much compression (if any at all)... Recording *through* a compressor and being stuck with it when you're not certain of how it'll eventually fit into the mix just seems...

I dunno... I'd rather take my chances by keeping those options open.

[TuoKaerf]

Ever think to try and get the drummer to play better versus using effects to fix what they are doing?

[FALKEN]

it TOTALLY depends on the drummer. The drummer in one of my bands plays very consistently....in fact his kick drum needs no compression at all. the last time I recorded him I put a mic about 6' in front of the kit and compressed it just for effect....everything else dry. In my other band the drummer plays VERY dynamically....its amazing, he makes the kit sound more like an 'instrument' than anybody I've ever heard play. He can make it say anything. Unfortunately, to make it say "rock n roll" he gets 2:1 with 3-4 db gain reduction on the hard hits med attack med release on the kick and snare.

[Scottgman]

So am I a total idiot for compressing on the way in? I'll compress the overheads and the kick/snare. I'm talking 6:1, fast attack, medium release, but I set the threshold so that it only compresses the wild hits.

My thinking is that I don't want to dick around with trying to "fix" a clipped snare hit in the overheads (or whatever) after the fact-- or have to re-track what was an otherwise stellar performance because of some distorted drum hits. So I guess I'm using the compressors more as a safety net than as an "effect."

I dunno, I use an RNLA on the overheads and RNCs on the snare/kick. I really like the way it sounds. Also, I'm always recording the same drummer in the same room on the same kit and using the same mics/pres and have been tracking this way for a while. So I'm pretty familiar with the equipment and the results I'm getting. The drummer and I have done alot of experimenting and dialed in this sound. I suppose I would approach it differently if I was recording a different drummer/kit every time.

But what the hell do I know? I'm just a novice.

[giraffe]

i don't do any thing on the way in...... cause i mean
why?
is there some reason you can't do it later?

it would make more sense if you had a limited amount of compressors and knew you would be using them for other things later.
but i mix in the box, so there's no danger of that.

(actually, i would do it on the 2-track live stuff that i occasionally do because i use a mini disc player to record that stuff, and would like to be able to hit it a little harder...... cause MD kinda bites)

[giraffe]

Originally Posted by Scottgman

So am I a total idiot for compressing on the way in? I'll compress the overheads and the kick/snare. I'm talking 6:1, fast attack, medium release, but I set the threshold so that it only compresses the wild hits.

My thinking is that I don't want to dick around with trying to "fix" a clipped snare hit in the overheads (or whatever) after the fact-- or have to re-track what was an otherwise stellar performance because of some distorted drum hits. So I guess I'm using the compressors more as a safety net than as an "effect."

I dunno, I use an RNLA on the overheads and RNCs on the snare/kick. I really like the way it sounds. Also, I'm always recording the same drummer in the same room on the same kit and using the same mics/pres and have been tracking this way for a while. So I'm pretty familiar with the equipment and the results I'm getting. The drummer and I have done alot of experimenting and dialed in this sound. I suppose I would approach it differently if I was recording a different drummer/kit every time.

But what the hell do I know? I'm just a novice.

what's that quote bruce used to have in his sig?
i think it went
there is no prize for being as close to zero as possible. people will not like you better, and girls will not be more attracted to you.

something like that anyway......

[Scottgman]

Originally Posted by giraffe

what's that quote bruce used to have in his sig?
i think it went
there is no prize for being as close to zero as possible. people will not like you better, and girls will not be more attracted to you.

something like that anyway......

Point taken. But I don't push the gain-- at least I don't think I do. I try to keep everything away from the red and I would say the average hit is around -12db. My overheads are probably even lower than that. However, sometimes a wild hit will clip and sound like ass and the overheads seem especially prone to this. But I'm talking 2 hits per song might clip. So I'd rather use compressors on the way in to avoid those two hits that will cause me an ulcer down the road.

Maybe I'm compensating for my poor engineering skills or maybe my drummer needs to work on his control, but it's been working for me and I like the results. Of course, I've never tracked in a really nice room with an array of APIs and Neves at my disposal. I'm using RNP and Toft level gear here. So, again... what do I know??

[giraffe]

Originally Posted by Scottgman

Point taken. But I don't push the gain-- at least I don't think I do. I try to keep everything away from the red and I would say the average hit is around -12db. My overheads are probably even lower than that. However, sometimes a wild hit will clip and sound like ass and the overheads seem especially prone to this. But I'm talking 2 hits per song might clip. So I'd rather use compressors on the way in to avoid those two hits that will cause me an ulcer down the road.

Maybe I'm compensating for my poor engineering skills or maybe my drummer needs to work on his control, but it's been working for me and I like the results. Of course, I've never tracked in a really nice room with an array of APIs and Neves at my disposal. I'm using RNP and Toft level gear here. So, again... what do I know??

how low are your overs?
if they're close moving them up will help with this a little.
when i set my overs, i set them so they peak at about 3/4. YMMV
possibly it's your drummers fault though, not yours.
(dynamic issues)

p.s.
the best pre i own is a dmp3
and the most i've ever spent on a mic is 400$ for my nt2a (although i have a re27, which sells new for more than that but i paid about 200$ for it)
so if it takes neves to know what you're doing, i'm in for a long haul.

[giraffe]

also, like i said it makes a little more sense with hardware because it frees them up to do other things later.

[vintagetobes]

would a limiter be a good idea on the way in? Im having trouble taming wild hits.

[pointfive]

Originally Posted by Kronpox

Unless you're able to record the drum tracks onto separate tracks for each part of the kit, then post-recording compression will not give you your desired effect, as it would compress the entire kit with the same settings. So if this is what you're stuck with, then compress during recording, but spend a while making sure it sounds good as a kit.

This is my band's situation, and we compress during recording (just the snare). Our music tends to span a pretty wide dynamic range, so for us to keep things even I find it necessary to compress. We have a good drummer now--very even--so this works well. When I was drumming (out of sheer necessity), I had to compress to handle the inconsistencies in my playing; not good.

I'm a self-taught amateur, though, so take everything I'm saying with a shaker of salt.

[pointfive]

Originally Posted by giraffe

also, like i said it makes a little more sense with hardware because it frees them up to do other things later.

This is another thing for us. We have only 1 RNC. I am going to purchase another when I can, but for now I tend to lightly compress a number of things during recording so I can free up the RNC for use during mixdown if need be.

[pappy999]

I am recording a ton of different drummers and styles. I spend a lot of time on my mixes to get consistent kick and snare hits. I was thinking of using a compressor to save time in post production. If every drummer I recorded was perfect, consistency would not be an issue.

[jmorris]

In Mix mag. I have read a ton of articles in the " classis tracks" or "producers/mix masters" catagorys. They all as I remember use compression going in. Some even talk about how they really "slam" the overheads or the bottom snare mic. I compress on the way in my kick and snare. Just to try to even them out. I'm talking very low ratio's. 1.5 0r 2:1. Does it help? I dunno? I guess the safe bet is NOT to but I figure if I am careful, listen real good while setting up, I can compress on the way in and have it be ok. This topic is very subjective.

[twostone]

I like to compress all kind of instruments because of musicians lack of consistency not do I only appliy to drums but just about all of instruments from accustic guitars, drums for drummers who beat the fuck out of them, on vocals for those who scream their lyrics and I've lerned it's a great tool for auto leveling signals and that's my main reason I use before and after mix down I suggest go for it until you get the hang of it.

[Dogman]

I'd say, in homerecording...whatever gets the desired result. I track all my vocals with an RNC. I can't sing. This just helps me in the long run. If something helps you get the results you want, do it.

[Reggie]

Originally Posted by TuoKaerf

Ever think to try and get the drummer to play better versus using effects to fix what they are doing?

I'm not usually one to bring back a dead thread, but this one just tickled me. "Uh, hey guy. Could you, uh, like, play better? OK, thanks. Let's try another take...."