Whats your recomandation?

[Nakatira]

I`m moving into a new house.
I`ve got a even shaped room to put up a studio in.

On the side of this room I have this small bedroom\shed.
I was thinking about making it a controll room.

The roof is slooping after 1,5 meters into the room.

total floor size is 4,5 meter x 2,5 meters
Full height is 2,25.

I`ve made some drawings.

So my question is Should I drop it and setup the controlls\monitors in the Music room instead (its much bigger).

I just thought it would be good to get the controlls isolated from the rest.

[mshilarious]

I think I would use the little room for a vocal or iso booth. That ceiling is gonna reflect the monitors right into your head, so either way you'd have to completely deaden it.

[Nakatira]

Originally Posted by mshilarious

I think I would use the little room for a vocal or iso booth. That ceiling is gonna reflect the monitors right into your head, so either way you'd have to completely deaden it.

Thanks for the quick reply

I was planning to try some DIY acoustic treatment.

when you say deaden it.
I`ve deaden a few rooms before to get that 70`s prog rock sound.
I used a whole bunch of thick carpets floor carpets, wool blankets, you name it.

If the room was completely dead, It would be worth a shot??


I was planning to set up Acoustic panels, but if carpets would do the trick I have some experience with that.

thanks.. .... Daniel

[mshilarious]

Originally Posted by Nakatira

I was planning to set up Acoustic panels, but if carpets would do the trick I have some experience with that.

thanks.. .... Daniel

No I don't think carpet will do. You would need 50mm of rigid insulation on all the walls, and probably 100mm in a few spots. I don't have experience recording with a room like that, although my old house had one bedroom almost exactly those dimensions. Personally, I wouldn't have tried using it as a control room, but maybe somebody else here has something to add.

[emergencyexit]

I'm a bit lost here. Are the two rooms actually separate as of now. And if they are It's useless to use one as a control and one as a live room because if they are right next to each other, it is most likely NOT soundproof. And that is a huge investment in itself.

As for your acoustics treatment... I don't know what you did before, but I don't understand how that room you did before with just carpets was dead. carpet is good for really one thing. Being carpet. Some will say that it gets rid of a lot of high frequencies, but then your left with the lower ones which will be of greater affect. go to Ethan Winer's site and read his acoustics articles and bass trap article. www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html and http://www.ethanwiner.com/basstrap.html. His traps are cheap and pretty easy to make, and the acoustics article is incredible. I give this link out about once every 2 days on this board and have never got anything but super positive reviews.

Good luck, what ever you decide.

Ben

[Nakatira]

Originally Posted by emergencyexit

I'm a bit lost here. Are the two rooms actually separate as of now. And if they are It's useless to use one as a control and one as a live room because if they are right next to each other, it is most likely NOT soundproof. And that is a huge investment in itself.

As for your acoustics treatment... I don't know what you did before, but I don't understand how that room you did before with just carpets was dead. carpet is good for really one thing. Being carpet. Some will say that it gets rid of a lot of high frequencies, but then your left with the lower ones which will be of greater affect. go to Ethan Winer's site and read his acoustics articles and bass trap article. www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html and http://www.ethanwiner.com/basstrap.html. His traps are cheap and pretty easy to make, and the acoustics article is incredible. I give this link out about once every 2 days on this board and have never got anything but super positive reviews.

Good luck, what ever you decide.

Ben

Well I will not say that the room I used the carpets on was completely dead, I havent got enough experience with acoustic to say so.

But I remeber doing the Clap you hands test, in the room before and after, and there was a difference, a very noticeable one.
And from the sounds I got on the drum kit, it sounded pretty dead..

The rooms are next to each other.

So I might as well just use the recording\live room for both live room and controll.
and skip the "work on the small uneven room".

Ps the two pics are of the same room, just different angles.

the live room I`ve got is about +25" meters should be enough room.


One more question.
Do you think the Acc panels Will make the drums sound more dry 70`s than the carpets?

[emergencyexit]

Originally Posted by Nakatira

Well I will not say that the room I used the carpets on was completely dead, I havent got enough experience with acoustic to say so.

But I remeber doing the Clap you hands test, in the room before and after, and there was a difference, a very noticeable one.
And from the sounds I got on the drum kit, it sounded pretty dead..

The rooms are next to each other.

So I might as well just use the recording\live room for both live room and controll.
and skip the "work on the small uneven room".

Ps the two pics are of the same room, just different angles.

the live room I`ve got is about +25" meters should be enough room.


One more question.
Do you think the Acc panels Will make the drums sound more dry 70`s than the carpets?

Well yes the rooms should sound different because what you probably did was get rid of all the high echo and reverb in the room. This would become very apparent when clapping your hands. But when cranking a bass amp in there and noticing that it sounds much much different that that amp normally sounds, this is going to be because there is a lot of cancelation occurring at low frequencies. It's not just gonna affect bass. Read the first article I sent you. I doubt that you were creating bass traps with that carpet, unless it was about 5 layers of thick carpet 1' away from the wall. Its your decision as to use the other room as a control room, I like the separation, but then again I already had about 1' of concrete between my two rooms to start with so life wasn't quite as hard.

Ben

[Nakatira]

Thanks for the reply man.
You`ve got a point on the bass part.
I Just remeber reading somewhere "I think it was in a norwegian magazine" the 70`s were all about carpets.

I will not argue fro the sake of the carpets, instead I look forward to reaching for the tool belt and try some DIY panels and traps.

Lot of great models and facts on the Ethan winer site.

Thanks for the help man.

[SonicClang]

I'm going to pull out my fire marshal bill hat one more time today... I just want to remind you that buildling codes for floors and walls are different. Carpet is ok on the floor, but because fire climbs, it's not ok on walls.

Not to mention it doesn't really do that great in studio situations for absorbing frequencies. "DIY" acoustic treatment is very tricky. It's more complicated than sticking some carpet up on the walls.

[Nakatira]

Originally Posted by SonicClang

I'm going to pull out my fire marshal bill hat one more time today... I just want to remind you that buildling codes for floors and walls are different. Carpet is ok on the floor, but because fire climbs, it's not ok on walls.

Not to mention it doesn't really do that great in studio situations for absorbing frequencies. "DIY" acoustic treatment is very tricky. It's more complicated than sticking some carpet up on the walls.

Good point on the fire danger, I should have thought of that.
I`m going to try my best understanding these acoustic panels.
Hopefully they will give me the dead sound that I crave.

Now I read in an other thread that, it was adviced to remove the floor carpet and use a wooden floor, I think it was Mshillarious suggestion.
He seems to know what he`s talking about.
But I thought a carpet floor was helping to deaden the sound?

In the place that I`m fixing I`ve got a wooden floor, as well as walls and the works.

So is carpets a big no no, even if you go for the 70`s bucket drum sound?

[pandamonk]

I believe that you could use that room as a control room. Just swap you idea round, and line the back wall with 4" broadband abosrbers, with 4-6" bass traps in the corners. Also have a broadband absorber on the sides of the room between the monitors and mixing position. (shown in the pics)

[Nakatira]

Originally Posted by pandamonk

I believe that you could use that room as a control room. Just swap you idea round, and line the back wall with 4" broadband abosrbers, with 4-6" bass traps in the corners. Also have a broadband absorber on the sides of the room between the monitors and mixing position. (shown in the pics)

thanks for replying
Intresting...

It would be nice to separate the live room and the controlls\monitors.


One more thing should I put up carpets in the rooms, or leave them as they are "wooden"?

thanks for the great drawings

[pandamonk]

Originally Posted by Nakatira

thanks for replying
Intresting...

It would be nice to separate the live room and the controlls\monitors.


One more thing should I put up carpets in the rooms, or leave them as they are "wooden"?

Shouldn't matter too much, 'cause the reflections on the floor from the monitors will just bounce to the back wall to be absorbed anyway. Save your money and keep it wooden. Looks better too.

Originally Posted by Nakatira

thanks for the great drawings

Why thank you, i get enough practice. I'm constantly(well not constantly, that'd be sad, but you know what I mean) drawing plans etc in paint.

Btw look at my age, I'm only 18, so don't have enough experience to give you a perfect, profession, response. I may be wrong, but I have read A LOT on the subject, so think it is a good solution. People have said the sound isolation between the rooms will not be good. And I agree, BUT, It will be a lot better than tracking and mixing, etc in the same room.

[Nakatira]

Originally Posted by pandamonk

Shouldn't matter too much, 'cause the reflections on the floor from the monitors will just bounce to the back wall to be absorbed anyway. Save your money and keep it wooden. Looks better too.


Why thank you, i get enough practice. I'm constantly(well not constantly, that'd be sad, but you know what I mean) drawing plans etc in paint.

Btw look at my age, I'm noly 18, so don't have enough experience to give you a perfect, profession, response. I may be wrong, but I have read A LOT on the subject, so think it is a good solution. People have said the sound isolation between the rooms will not be good. And I agree, BUT, It will be a lot better than tracking and mixing, etc in the same room.

Well I`m 25 and I obviously know less than you.
Thanks for taking the time to help me, and those pics are saved so that I have a plan to follow once I get started.

Its gonna be great getting behind any wall if you have a drummer that needs 30 takes on one track.
its not sound proof but i helps.
and it sure keeps the computer noise out of the live room

Thanks pal.

[pandamonk]

Sounds like me, drummer needing 30 takes, lol. No problem, hope everything works out well for you.

[Nakatira]

Originally Posted by pandamonk

Sounds like me, drummer needing 30 takes, lol. No problem, hope everything works out well for you.

hehe

its times like that the wall your behind keeps your spirit up and your head partially clear.
I`ve done some 30 takes in the same room as the drummer and man your ears are fried.

I will be trying to make those panels soon.
I`ll post some pics or something once I`ve made them (or Died trying )

[SonicClang]

I've never really hard a really good explanation as to why people use hardwood floors in studios, besides that it looks fantastic. I understand that carpet absorbes the wrong frequencies, but a hard floor reflects all frequencies, isn't that just as bad? Wouldn't that create lots of excess reverb? Either way, I still plan on using hardwood floors in my studio so any reasonably good suggestion will work for me.

[pandamonk]

Lol, You know what the panels are? If not, do a search. I'm sure you already have. You seem experienced in the ways of homerecording.

[Nakatira]

Originally Posted by SonicClang

I've never really hard a really good explanation as to why people use hardwood floors in studios, besides that it looks fantastic. I understand that carpet absorbes the wrong frequencies, but a hard floor reflects all frequencies, isn't that just as bad? Wouldn't that create lots of excess reverb? Either way, I still plan on using hardwood floors in my studio so any reasonably good suggestion will work for me.

In the few recording scenes I`ve been to\been a part of.
There has allway been a carpet.
I`ve never been to a proffesional studio though.
So it shall be cool to check it out.


even no small carpet under the drumkit

[Nakatira]

Originally Posted by pandamonk

Lol, You know what the panels are? If not, do a search. I'm sure you already have. You seem experienced in the ways of homerecording.

Well i hope I do.
Thats the frame thing aint it ...

I`ve read a few of the other posts.
Concerining the diy 703 rigid fiberglass .

I just hope I can find that stuff over here in Norway, its probbably around under another name

[pandamonk]

Originally Posted by SonicClang

I've never really hard a really good explanation as to why people use hardwood floors in studios, besides that it looks fantastic. I understand that carpet absorbes the wrong frequencies, but a hard floor reflects all frequencies, isn't that just as bad? Wouldn't that create lots of excess reverb? Either way, I still plan on using hardwood floors in my studio so any reasonably good suggestion will work for me.

Some like them because they make the room livelier, but in a good way. Also, you already have the floorboards there, so why waste your money on getting a carpet, when you could get a new mic, lol. Absorbing the wrong frequencies is worse than none at all. Think of it this way. You have a graphic eq attatched to you monitors. With hardwood the levels are all reasonably level, not great with no acoustic treatment, but ok. With carpet, you bring the top third of the graphic EQ down a lot, especially the highest of frequnecies. It makes it a lot more uneven than before. With 4" absorbtion on the back wall, all but the lowest of audable frequnecies will be absorbed, due to all the sound from the speakers travelling staight, reflecting off the hardwood floor, and the ceiling to the back wall. Most of the lowest audable frequnecies somehow gather in the corners, so the bass traps in the corners absorb them.

[Nakatira]

Originally Posted by pandamonk

Some like them because they make the room livelier, but in a good way. Also, you already have the floorboards there, so why waste your money on getting a carpet, when you could get a new mic, lol. Absorbing the wrong frequencies is worse than none at all. Think of it this way. You have a graphic eq attatched to you monitors. With hardwood the levels are all reasonably level, not great with no acoustic treatment, but ok. With carpet, you bring the top third of the graphic EQ down a lot, especially the highest of frequnecies. It makes it a lot more uneven than before. With 4" absorbtion on the back wall, all but the lowest of audable frequnecies will be absorbed, due to all the sound from the speakers travelling staight, reflecting off the hardwood floor, and the ceiling to the back wall. Most of the lowest audable frequnecies somehow gather in the corners, so the bass traps in the corners absorb them.

man I`m learning a lot here.
Thanks for a great explanation.
I cant wait to try my Msp5`s in a treated room.

its gonna cost me, but it will be worth it.

By the way I Looked at the place again to today, and it turns out I`ve go a simular room to the controll room on the oppesite site of the LIve room.
In time maybe that could function as a Vocal\guitar amp room.

Just need to wheeling in those big big checks

[pandamonk]

Originally Posted by Nakatira

Well i hope I do.
Thats the frame thing aint it ...

I`ve read a few of the other posts.
Concerining the diy 703 rigid fiberglass .

I just hope I can find that stuff over here in Norway, its probbably around under another name

Try buying from europoe or the UK cause I've heard that norway prices for everything are extorsionate. Yeh that's the right thing. I'm gonig to get stuff called bonded logic ultratouch. It is slightly more expensive than other forms of rigid fiberglass and mineral wool, but has as good if not better absorbsion coefficients, and is made from recycled denim so is completely harmless. You don't need to wear gloves when installing, and don't need to worry about breathing the fibers. I'd still suggest covering with material, for aesthetic purposes, and too to keep them in the frame. Make an 8'x2' frame or suit to fit your room and put the insulation in then wrap the whole thing in fabric material. Some suggest wrapping one side in material and putting hardboard or plyboard or something like that on the other side. But much of the absorbsion happens because of the space behind, especially in the case of the bass traps in the corners. eg, a 1" piece of rigid fiberglass, spaced 1" from a wall will act like a 2" piece, mounted directly on the wall.

[pandamonk]

Originally Posted by Nakatira

man I`m learning a lot here.
Thanks for a great explanation.
I cant wait to try my Msp5`s in a treated room.

its gonna cost me, but it will be worth it.

By the way I Looked at the place again to today, and it turns out I`ve go a simular room to the controll room on the oppesite site of the LIve room.
In time maybe that could function as a Vocal\guitar amp room.

Just need to wheeling in those big big checks

I'm just spilling out a lot of what I've learnt in months of reading an researching, in a few posts for you, lol. I think it should function quite well as it is just now. I'd get it all done this way, and have a few recording sessions. You may find that it's good enough. You could use a few of the broadband absorbers round a vocalist or an amp, and that would give you quite a dry/dead recording. I'd make a few bass traps in the live room if i were you. When recording vocals and guitar you would use these movable traps as a booth for the amp or vocals. It won't be an isolated booth, but it will be a dead booth.

[Nakatira]

Originally Posted by pandamonk

Try buying from europoe or the UK cause I've heard that norway prices for everything are extorsionate. Yeh that's the right thing. I'm gonig to get stuff called bonded logic ultratouch. It is slightly more expensive than other forms of rigid fiberglass and mineral wool, but has as good if not better absorbsion coefficients, and is made from recycled denim so is completely harmless. You don't need to wear gloves when installing, and don't need to worry about breathing the fibers. I'd still suggest covering with material, for aesthetic purposes, and too to keep them in the frame. Make an 8'x2' frame or suit to fit your room and put the insulation in then wrap the whole thing in fabric material. Some suggest wrapping one side in material and putting hardboard or plyboard or something like that on the other side. But much of the absorbsion happens because of the space behind, especially in the case of the bass traps in the corners. eg, a 1" piece of rigid fiberglass, spaced 1" from a wall will act like a 2" piece, mounted directly on the wall.

Got a website for that fiberglass?
Just wanna check the price\shipping

And your right about prices being steep over here, I`ve bought most of my recording equipment from the U.S