From Mix to CD - my mix is thin. What gives?

[Dr. Jeep]

I have asked this of everyone before but here it goes again. I have a good mix in ProTools LE. I am happy, it sounds full, nice, whatever. I bounce it to 16 bit stereo for a CD and it sounds so thin...weak...aenimic. What am I doing wrong? In other words - why does God hate me???

People have said - go back and check your mix. Seriously, what the fuck? The mix is where I want it...then I put it to a CD and the volume goes down (I am not after the loudest record mind you), the richness is gone, the song is just limp. This is premastering - and I am just wanting to hear my mix as it is in the box but on CD. I have heard CDs off a board and they never sounded this thin, so I find that mastering wouldn't "fix" it.


I'm going to go put a gun in my mouth now. Peace.

DJ

[IronFlippy]

This seems pretty obvious, but are you listening to the CD at the same volume as your mix? When it gets louder, it tends to sound more full. Then when you go play the cd somewhere else at a lower volume, it doesn't sound the same.

[Dr. Jeep]

Yeah - its more of about the quality of the mix then the sheer volume. It probably has more to do with environments too.

[Reggie]

Don't know if this can cause so much damage, but are you recording at 24 bits and then exporting your mix as 16 bit? If so, do you have your dither plug turned on? I don't remember where this is in ProTulz, but in Cubase you actually have to put the dither plug as the last insert on the main fader. Monitor your mix with this on before the bounce, and see if the difference is as noticeable.
How are you playing the CD back through your system? Try ripping the audio back off the CD and import it into a ProTulz session so you can be sure you are using the exact same monitoring chain.

Trace all your chains and if you can't find the problem, by all means, pull the trigger. There is no other way out.

[xstatic]

Definately make sure that you are listening to your CD at equal volumes. Many people don't think about the difference between something like a DAW application that controls your soundcard, and how different an OS treats that same soundcard.

[Cloneboy Studio]

A few clarifying questions:

1.) Are you listening to the finished CD in the same monitoring environment as the mix? At the same volumes?

2.) What is the output level of your main mix?

3.) Are you having to pull down the master faders to avoid clipping?

4.) Do you have any inserts on your master buss? If so, what are they?


A few observations about how I do things:

1.) I create my mix against a reference CD. The reference CD will be a commercial recording appropriate for the production that sounds excellent.

2.) My *mixdowns* are 24 bit. It's during mastering that I will go down to CD resolution.

3.) Generally speaking, "thickness" is determined long before you press record. Mixing seldom adds true thickness unless you really, really know what you are doing.

[Dr. Jeep]

Well - I bounce down to 24 bit then I open that up in a seperate 24 bit session. I was trying to output it from there using various dither setups like a Waves Ultramaximizer - but that did drive the volume up quite a bit.

What do you use as a "mastering" chain?

[jonnyc]

Your problem is probably as simple as your mixes not translating. You're room is probably not the greatest acoustically and your monitors are probably lying to you a bit, or hell maybe a lot. I know this from experience. I used to create what I thought were great mixes on my monitors and then I'd get out to the car and say "WTF!!!!" Then I'd go back in and try again. Now I'm at the point where I've learned what my monitors and room really sound like and I can get pretty decent mixes. The biggest test to rule out dithering problems or anything like that is to burn a cd then play that back thru your monitors, if it sounds the same as it did when you mixed it then its simply a translation problem from your monitors to other sources. Rule out eveything else first and once all the other potential problems have been ruled out then the problem is your room.

[Dr. Jeep]

It's probably the room - and my own ineptitude. I went back and listened to the mix, and it kind of sucked. I guess I was thinking it was better than it was. I will have to train myself for the room some more. But all the issues everyone has stated are applicable.

The main issue is that I play back the wav. files before buring a CD through my monitors and they sound weaker volume wise. But yes, in the car its a nightmare.

[pingu]

Mastering will help these issues.

But the best records require the least amount of mastering.