Do you know if an MS-16 factory calibrated for 30 ips would need NR?

[Seeker of Rock]

I started a little search for a new machine. Again, the hiss on the MSR with GP9 I could probably live with, not completely happily, but live with. The pops and crackles are a little harder to swallow, so it has me looking at least. There are some MS-16 machines around. Some don't have the DBX units but are modified for 30 ips. Anyone know anything about these and although not 2" tape, only 1", with this higher speed but no NR would there be noticeable hiss? I've followed threads here before that say the combination of 2" and 30 ips don't really produce a lot of hiss. Curious about 1" at 30 ips? There is one on ebay that the owner has reconditioned or replaced a lot of the parts, so I'm sure it has seen quite a bit of use. 50% record head left. Wow. Some others on a couple of online sites I have e-mails out to. I'm going to check with my tech. He has some gear that he sells as well, and see what he has. He has an MSR-16 with DBX but is asking $1200 and a guy already put money down on it some while back. I don't know, if it is in good condition with no issues, maybe I should drive up and give it a listen. Toying with an MS-16 if I can find one though because I don't think it would cost that much more. Or maybe I'm just posting my way through my frustration

[Beck]

The higher tape speed lowers tape hiss but increases wear for the same minutes of record time, and there has always been a 15 vs. 30 ips debate for what 30 does to the low end. I personally don't like what 30 does to the sound compared to 15. Others think its just fine, but technically speaking the low end rolls off drastically and eliminates frequencies within a musically usable range.

I think the MS-16 is just fine at 15 ips. It's a nice unit.

[The Ghost of FM]

Originally Posted by Beck

I think the MS-16 is just fine at 15 ips. It's a nice unit.

Same here.

The MS-16's heads were designed and gapped for 15 ips only. Even if you found a machine that was pimped up to run at 30, you will lose the bottom octave which would be fine if you were doing voice over work or strictly recording tinker bells. Don't tell us you do that!

What Tim mentioned about the head wear is also true, that at 30 ips, they'll wear twice as fast and so will the guides and lifters. Over all, the MS-16 is a rock and roll machine. Don't attempt to make it something it's not.

Cheers!

[cjacek]

Doesn't the track width influence hiss more than tape speed ?

[The Ghost of FM]

Originally Posted by cjacek

Doesn't the track width influence hiss more than tape speed ?

Track width can lead to a quieter hiss level only in that wider track width formats can be biased to hotter levels which in turn allows you to record at hotter levels that will be on average, above the audible hiss levels on the tape.

Doubling the speed also doubles the real-estate of which to lay the information down on the tape and can also lead to less susceptibility to drop outs and lower wow and flutter characteristics.

I don't know the specific specs as to which if either is more important to achieving lower hiss levels but I would make an educated guess and assert that either method is roughly equal in importance.

The wear and tear as well as head gap issues still stand as a drawbacks to faster speed recordings.

Cheers!

[Herm]

I am also a fan of 15 ips. I had a Fostex e16 that ran at 30 and the low end is just not there. plus tape gets exspensive. I would pass on any machine that has been modded like that.

[cjacek]

Originally Posted by The Ghost of FM

Track width can lead to a quieter hiss level only in that wider track width formats can be biased to hotter levels which in turn allows you to record at hotter levels that will be on average, above the audible hiss levels on the tape.

Doubling the speed also doubles the real-estate of which to lay the information down on the tape and can also lead to less susceptibility to drop outs and lower wow and flutter characteristics.

I don't know the specific specs as to which if either is more important to achieving lower hiss levels but I would make an educated guess and assert that either method is roughly equal in importance.

The wear and tear as well as head gap issues still stand as a drawbacks to faster speed recordings.

Cheers!

Alright, thanks Jeff.

[FALKEN]

seeker,

I was doing some recording this weekend and thinking about your dilemma. how do you know that your msr is bad and not your mackie board??? those mackie 8-bus boards are not generally regarded as maintenance free....

[Seeker of Rock]

Check my rather lengthy post on the "should I be hitting the GP9 tape harder" and you will find the answer. I'm relatively sure it is not the board from some plugging/unplugging I did day and into the night Saturday. I believe I isolated the hum to the outputs of the MSR. Hate to say this, but I think I am going to give the HD24 a try. I can return it if I don't like it, and if there is an issue with the board, it should be revealed if the same hum still shows up. If I don't like it, I'm looking probably at an MS-16. Thanks for the thoughts, man. How did your recording go, btw?

[FALKEN]

man it went really good. we set the bass up through a hartke head in the jam room, and used a pair of DI's to track it in the control room. the sound was amazing. I stayed up till 3 am doing vocal tracks last night...the RE20 sounded better than the 4050 for whatever reason....I can't wait to get home tonight to mix it down. only issue was I got one dropout!!! arrrgh! that song is probably ruined. I believe it is from using GP9 without setting the machine up for it...either that or smoking in the control room, not sure which......

I'll tell you what that HD24 will give you no problems. Have you looked into something like an Echo Layla? I really like mine.