Cassette tapes - HELP

[simpleybass]

I'm using a Yamaha MT-120 4 track cassette recorder that was given to me.

I have a question about which cassette tapes to use...

The manual says to use Type II, high position, chrome.

I found Maxell Type II, high position tapes, but they don't say anything about being chrome.

What's the deal with "chrome"?

Am I using the right tapes?

Thanks

[SteveMac]

Those should be fine. I don't know about the chrome aspect but generally with those machines you just want a good HIGH BIAS tape. Which is what you have.

[A Reel Person]

Type II = High Bias = Chrome.

You'da man!

[simpleybass]

Thanks, you guys are awesome. That clears that up for me nicely. Oh yeah, I meant to say high bias, not high position.

Maybe you can help me with a couple other things I've been wondering about...first let me tell you what I'm doing... recording vocals and acoustic instruments in a room with some nice natural reverb. Primarily using and SPB1 and an SPB3, running through solid state mic pre-amps. No effects or post processing.

I've been recording with the dbx off. Any comment?

I'm using 90 minute tapes (the manual says not to use anything longer than that). Any comments?

I've been recording at normal tape speed (4.8), but the machine is switchable to a faster speed (9.6 i think). Will this make a noticable difference in the sound quality?

Thanks again

[Doc Holiday]

The higher tape speed will sound better. You will get less tape hiss if you record with Dolby and play back with Dolby.

[simpleybass]

Got it on the tape speed. Thanks.

Regarding Dolby.. I understand it is designed to reduce noice, but if I use it will I lose some of the nice high frequencies I'm getting from the SP B1?

[Doc Holiday]

You might want to experiment with the Dolby to see what you prefer. I've recorded stuff on a couple of different Tascam models, so I'm not familiar with Yamaha's products. I'm satisfied with recording with Dolby. There was too much noise without it. I don't think it did anything udesirable to the recording. I had some stuff that I recorded on a Roland VS880EX and I transferred it over to an old Tascam 4 track with Dolby and it actually took some of that digital shrillness out of it. It just depends on what kind of sound you're after. Experiment with it and see what you think.

[A Reel Person]

90 min. tapes should be okay. The dbx is there to minimize tape hiss, and I've always used it. It's never seemed to "damage" the sound. Dbx should be ON when recording and playing back, as it's an encode/decode system.

[cjacek]

On a narrow track recording format, it is recommended to use whatever noise reduction system is available. The dbx will give you significantly more headroom and virtually no hiss and distortion.

[rayc]

Simplybass,
As a bass player I suggest the following:
Dolby will fill up the tape & through selectivly adding EQing to reduce tape hiss & when played back with the same Dolby this EQing will be removed leaving the sound you recorded with a minimum of hiss/dist.
I have & still use an MT100.
Record something simple with the Dolby ON - then play it back with the Dolby OFF. Hear the diff?
Now play it back with the Dolby ON. Listen again. Good eh?
Dolby will only remove the wrong frequencies IF you haven't used it in record but have it ON in playback.
Record something with the Dolby OFF.
Now play it back.
Sound hissie eh?
NOW play it back with the Dolby ON.
You can hear the type of EQing by the cuts to the sound you recorded.
It's from playing non Dolby recordings with Dolby ON that has created the misconception about rolling off the highs.
Still a really cool tape machine isn't it?
Use Dolby, Use Top speed, Clean often, use good tapes:
MAXIMUM 60min chrome tapes in rigid cassettes, (there are some horribly flimsy cassettes out there) stored like books (vertically on end spine out) in an even temp zone (preferably on the cool side) AWAY from sunlight, speakers, magnets, demagnetisers (use one of these often on the heads along with a gentle head & capstan clean), & FFWD (not while playing) them through every 6 months if you haven't played them.
& you'll have good results
Oh, and go a little into the red, (little), as consistently as possible to keep even more hiss away - personal opinion that one though.
Cheers
rayC

[A Reel Person]

That line of Yamahas used dbx.

Dbx is totally different than Dolby.

Dolby does a band-pass filter type of thing where it selectively boosts the EQ in the high frequency spectrum on Record, and (theoretically) cuts the same frequencies by the same amount on Playback, thus reducing tape hiss in the process.

Dbx is a broadband compression/expansion, that's not band-passing then boosting/cutting high frequencies selectively. It's really nothing at all like Dolby, (thank god!).

Given that caveat, I'll agree that both Dolby and dbx were meant to be employed both on record and playback, and if you only employ it on either the record side or the playback side, it will surely kill yer sound.

The Yamaha MT-120 employs dbx noise reduction, and it should be used on record and playback, exclusively. Any other creative implementation of dbx will yield less than satisfactory results. When used properly, dbx should be transparent, while simultaneously eliminating tape hiss and boosting net dynamic range by up to 30db,... and that's nothing to sneeze at.

Go ahead and call dbx "Dolby" if u want, but it's not the same, and it only adds to the confusion for clueless newbies.

Use dbx in record and play mode if you want hiss free recordings and boosted dynamic range.

Turn dbx off if you're fond of hiss in your recordings.

If you want your sound to be thoroughly screwed up, turn it on or off for the different phases of recording. (It makes no real difference to me).

I'll agree with rayc, that you turn dbx on and leave it on. The only reason they employed a dbx defeat switch, was to accommodate a sync track on track 4, and also to accommodate commercially recorded "non-dbx" cassettes. There was something about cassette multitracker mfgr's,... that they went through a phase where they wanted to be compatible with everyone.

I'm sorry for bending yer ear on that, but rayc's right, that incorrect or poor implementation of dbx adds to the misconception of dbx as something that adulterates the sound,... but if it used properly it doesn't. Hardly anyone wants to do that or knows how to use it properly.

I'll not comment on Dolby any further, other than to say IMO it's a crappy and ineffective noise reduction.

Aaaagggghhhh!!! Sorry!! I'll get off my soapbox now!!

[rayc]

DavemaniacReelperson,
I BOW TO YOU & vow to wear my specs when I'm looking at switches & will wear a red badge of newbiegumby on my chest for the next fortnight as an act of contrition.
Shows ya how long it's been since I actually looked at the switch - it's always ON.
As for soap boxes - passion is a virtue - I just wish more people could spare the time to have it. (paraphrasing David Byrne)
I ranted on another thread about MP3s today so go for it Reelperson & be praised.
I think I've got Dolby (at least I used a cap.) on the brain as I bought an outboard NR unit (TEAC) for my ancient Truvox Reel player over the hols. & have been thinking through the employment of it. Ah, but now I can't recall if it's DBX or Dolby - wahhhhh!
Yours in noise reduction ( noise as erroneous information)
rayC

[A Reel Person]

My first Porta (244) had no dbx switch, and NR was a given state of being.

The 244's not compatible with anything but itself, another 244, a 234 or 246. None of this omni-switchability like the with 424mkII, which often confuses people. On the 244, Tape Cue was Tape Cue, not Tape Cue and Something Else based on a certain set of switches. On the 244, Noise Reduction was just there. It wasn't Noise Reduction if you feel like noise reduction today, or maybe switch it the other way tomorrow, or based on which tape you were playing, or which track, or flat out Experimental Noise Reduction,... it was just there,... and it worked. Dbx works, if you give it a chance.

All I'm saying is give dbx a chance!

[cjacek]

Yeah, that's why I love the 244 so much!

I agree with Dave (ARP) that dbx can sound transparent when it is employed correctly and that, especially on narrow track, does nothing but improve the sound.

[simpleybass]

Thanks for the info regarding the dbx switch. I can't say I truly undersand everything you guys said, but oh well. I will be recording and playing back with the dbx switch ON for future sessions.

I got cleaning the heads covered, but I don't have a demagnetizer. Do I need one? Is this what I want? Is this a good price?

http://cgi.ebay.com/STUDIO-GRADE-TAP...QQcmdZViewItem

Hell, since you guys already know I am totally clueless, I might as well ask your opinions about this too...

When I'm recording, do I want my peak levels (loudest sounds) to go up into the first red zone (0dB) or up into the top red zone (+3dB)?

[A Reel Person]

'cause I've seen them for about $17.95 on other auctions.

Cleaning the heads is primary care, but demag is something you'd wanna do after about 12 hours of persistent use. Maybe more, but it's not a dramatic thing. It should be done periodically. 20 hours is fine. 30 maybe. Just do it regularly, however often you choose to. Make sure to switch the wand on and off at least 3-4 feet away from the recorder, and move it in/out slowly. Also keep the energized dmag wand away from any recording media.

[cjacek]

Originally Posted by simpleybass

Thanks for the info regarding the dbx switch. I can't say I truly undersand everything you guys said, but oh well. I will be recording and playing back with the dbx switch ON for future sessions.

I got cleaning the heads covered, but I don't have a demagnetizer. Do I need one? Is this what I want? Is this a good price?

http://cgi.ebay.com/STUDIO-GRADE-TAP...QQcmdZViewItem

Hell, since you guys already know I am totally clueless, I might as well ask your opinions about this too...

When I'm recording, do I want my peak levels (loudest sounds) to go up into the first red zone (0dB) or up into the top red zone (+3dB)?

Occassional peaks into the red, between 0 and +3 are fine. Some would argue not to go "into the red" when using with dbx but many have found it not to be an issue. One must remember that it is not neccessary to record this way with dbx. If you stay below 0db that's also fine. Just peak at around 0db and you're all set.

Btw, do not demag UNLESS you know precisely what you're doing or you may damage the heads.

[A Reel Person]

with LED meters like that,... you wanna regularly flash the "0VU" led, and flash the +3db led very occasionally and it'll be alright. That's assuming from your post that the top LED is +3, (but I'll check the manual).

There's an MT120 manual for download at the Yamaha site.
http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/Docu...udio/MT120.pdf

I took so long on this post, that Daniel beat me to it!

[cjacek]

Originally Posted by A Reel Person

I took so long on this post, that Daniel beat me to it!

Are we in competition?

[A Reel Person]

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[A Reel Person]

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[cjacek]

[simpleybass]

Originally Posted by cjacek

Btw, do not demag UNLESS you know precisely what you're doing or you may damage the heads.

Can you clarify? I just ordered one of these http://cgi.ebay.com/STUDIO-GRADE-TAP...QQcmdZViewItem

How, exactly, do I use it? (other than turning it on at least 3 feet away and then moving it slowly toward the recorder).

Remember, I am totally clueless.

Thanks for all the help.

[A Reel Person]

33 items found for head demagnetizer...

http://cgi.ebay.com/Tape-Head-Demagn...QQcmdZViewItem

Tape Head Demagnetizer For Reel to Reel Revox NEW L@@K! US $15.99 Shipping costs: US $5.75

[simpleybass]

Thanks Reel. That's actually the price I paid. I found that on ebay after searching more as you suggested. It come out to about $21 including shipping.

I just didn't bother to use that exact link for my last question because it was related to how to use the tool, not the cost.

I'm still worried about...

Originally Posted by cjacek

Btw, do not demag UNLESS you know precisely what you're doing or you may damage the heads.

Can somebody tell me how exactly to use the darn thing?

Thanks