noise reduction units

[antispatula]

So I've finally gotten my pinch roller for my mx5050 8 track re-rubbered (terry did an EXCELLENT job, and was super quick ) And got tape and want to start actaully trying to record with it, but it needs noise reductions units. So basically, I need to know whatto buy. I've seen some that have 4 channels for each unit, and look increadibly inexpensive on ebay. What's the difference between DBX type 1 and 2? Thanks!

[themaddog]

DBX type 1 is for reel recorders, type 2 is for cassette recorders. Basically, type 2 has a larger low pass filter in order to introduce fewer artifacts into the recording of cassette tapes, since the tracks are narrower and run at a slower speed.

-MD

[Muckelroy]

There's also the option of using Dolby NR, such as A, B, C, or SR.

It's a LOT more expensive, and it requires some wizardry as far as wiring it up to the recorder goes, but if you want a professional-quality NR system, that's always an option to go.

The Dolby 361 units come with 2 spots for NR modules, and you can usually pick what type of NR moduls you want to install into them. You can wire each module to each track of the recorder so that it will automatically switch from record mode, to play mode, depending on what the recorder is doing. That way, you only need 8 modules (and 4 361's), as opposed to 16 modules, dedicated to either playback, and record.

[antispatula]

woah.....so which one of the dolbys is the best for a 1/2 8 track?

[cjacek]

Originally Posted by antispatula

but it needs noise reductions units.

Apologies in advance for not answering your question but why do you feel you "need" noise reduction units with the Otari ?

[cjacek]

Also, getting a NR unit for the Otari is not a "set it, forget it" type of operation like dbx units for many TASCAM recorders. It could be an expensive and a time consuming process of setting it up.

Seriously, if the Otari is up to factory specs and if you align it for quality high output tape, noise/tape hiss is not an issue worth considering.

[Seeker of Rock]

OT, got my first reel of GP9 tape today. Antispatula, if you don't know my situation on here, I bought a TASCAM MSR 16 with Dolby. Unfortuantely I found out too late something is messed up in the Dolby all along, even though my reputable tech tried changing out two separate words he told me, one being transormers and I believe the other capacitors, one of which they had in stock at their facility, the other they specially ordered from TASCAM parts.
Have yet to put it up, as I just got the reel tonight, but running through tape before I heard a little hiss with all sixteen channels engaged. Not bad what I heard, but I really can't judge until I put it into context of a song or two. That was using 456.
On recommendations here since the NR seems to be unreparable at least by my tech here in Florida, I had him calibrate the machine, for a "mere" (yeah, I know I'm putting his kids through college by now) $125. He gave me a very detailed explanation of what he did after asking me whether I wanted to hear it, and it made sense. I can only repeat probably half of what he told me, but the bottom line is he calibrated the machine to push and output harder, internally, nothing affected by the levels in or out practically speaking, but that the machine was now "optimized" for GP9 tape, which according to the good people in Analog Forum and again assured by my tech, is a way to further minimize, though perhaps not completely compensate for, inherent noise associated with magnetic tape especially as it relates to multi-track recorders. But you only have 8 tracks of noise to deal with on 1/2" to deal with...I have 16 tracks on same width, which I hear is (logically) double the noise. Anyway, got the GP9 in today and tomorrow I'm going to AB with my 456 reel , just for shits and giggles.

[Beck]

If you want to use noise reduction, dbx is probably the easiest to find at an affordable price for 8 tracks. I use dbx on the TSR-8, but it's built-in and very well tuned with the system.

Two Tascam DX-4D units would do the trick, but I believe there is something about bypassing the control circuitry that works with Tascam machines. Arjoll, Ghost or ARP or might know something about this. Seems like its been discussed before.

You can also buy four DBX 150X units pretty cheaply.

There is a really nice older 8-channel, one rack space unit made by Rocktron called the System One 180A. It’s a proprietary design, but is similar to dbx. The only caution there is that it’s not a standard like Dolby or dbx, so if it stops working you would have to find another one just like it to playback your tapes. I have the 2-channel 120A and I like it as well as dbx or Dolby C. It was well designed, but once standards are in place it’s hard to move into that territory, so it never caught on.

Dolby is a lot pricier for 8 tracks – Dolby A or C would usually be the least expensive. SR will set you back (Harley, Dinette set, Dolby SR).

Fostex made a 4-channel Dolby C unit, the 3040, that goes pretty cheaply when I see them on ebay That’s not very often though, and to see two of them… not too likely. It’s something to keep an eye out for though.

Check ebay or musicgoround.com for any of the above.

[snipeguy]

Originally Posted by cjacek

Also, getting a NR unit for the Otari is not a "set it, forget it" type of operation like dbx units for many TASCAM recorders. It could be an expensive and a time consuming process of setting it up.

Seriously, if the Otari is up to factory specs and if you align it for quality high output tape, noise/tape hiss is not an issue worth considering.

I agree. My 5050 8 track has no NR and in my opinion, doesn't need it. Even with all eight cranked, the hiss is negligable. It rivals my TRS-8 with DBX. Also, the Otari is a sonically superior machine.

[Beck]

Funny, we each have our own ears I guess. I chose the TSR-8 over the MX5050 MKII/8 after side-by-side. The Otari was the runner up after lots of testing. It was as close to tossing a coin as I ever want to get though. Both machines were mint; virtually no head wear on the TSR (lucky me… it was a real find).

I confess I’ve always preferred the pin-drop quiet nature of dbx. I'm not an analog purist when it comes to that. Comparing the two w/out NR, the Otari has an advantage of a 320 nW/M operating level compared with 250 for the TSR-8. However, if a TSR-8 w/dbx engaged is rivaled by anything except silence the NR has drifted. The S/N on a properly functioning TSR is 108 dB. The only thing quieter is death. If I were to run a TSR-8 w/out NR on a regular basis I would set it up for 320 or more.

Of course the Otari is a super machine, and if I could have both…

Still love the layout of those overhead VUs.

I might be tempted to run the 5050 with GP9, then I could live with that little bit of hiss.

[mixmkr]

I see some dbx type 1, 150 (stereo) units on ebay for not too much. I would think that is what might work well.

Although dbx does, for all practicality eliminate the tape hiss, it does "muck" with the low end if the machine is not setup 100%....and then still that is the biggest area where I hear before and after differnces. I always preferred the dbx units ON vs having a little lo-end "bump" however. Dolby SR in my experience was more reserved to larger format multitracks, but didn't offer the noise reduction amount the dbx units did....but preserved the sound a tad better. I may be wrong, but I never really saw "consumer" Dolby SR units.

[Beck]

Right, no consumer SR that I'm aware of. S does nearly as good a job.

SR would be my choice of NR. I've thought about grabbing a 363 for 2-track mastering, since they can usually be had for $500.00 or less.

[mixmkr]

I seem to remember that Dolby SR kinda made a splash as the "answer" to tape hiss, back when it came out, but didn't seem to really take hold very strongly. If "pro" studios were using noise reduction at all, it seemed it was the dbx 600 (800?) series units... the size of the Kepex units. Tape hiss for some reason never seemed to be an issue with wide format multitracks..at least in my experience. It was just the Tascam/Otari?Fostex units that had it. You just "pumped" the MCI machines to the max!

[Beck]

SR had a lot of fans in the pro world -- still does, but it came relatively late in analog's heyday. Seems like yesterday to me when it was the new thing.

That's the big plus of wide tracks -- more signal and less noise.

Even where there may be a point of diminishing returns with sound quality, depending on the type of music, wider tracks always have the low-noise advantage.

[reel buzzer]

You don't need noise reduction with that unit.
Record at 15 ips and you're fine.

[antispatula]

Originally Posted by Beck

Right, no consumer SR that I'm aware of. S does nearly as good a job.

SR would be my choice of NR. I've thought about grabbing a 363 for 2-track mastering, since they can usually be had for $500.00 or less.

holy craperoni. 500 bucks for 2 tracks of noise reduction?! I've never had 500 dollars all at one time in my life!

[antispatula]

really? Great, more money to spend on other things!!! I really want a rhodes piano........But don't have nearly as much $$ as needed, but I swear I'll get one someday. I've got some old Carpenters records, and there's lots of rhodes on them, it sounds sweeeeet. I don't know how I got from NR to Rhodes pianos......