sloppy double bass help??

[bfoundation81]

ok im recording a drummer that is a little sloppy when running double bass kicks. Im using drumagog to replace kick and snare cause my room sucks. Is there any easy way to fix the double bass? Im using protools and really am kinda lost in what to do here

[Cloneboy Studio]

Tell the drummer to learn to play.

Or:

Edit the shit out of the drums by moving them in place. Yeah, you have to move ALL the drum tracks (i.e. the mics) to get it right.

Either way, welcome to hell.

[bfoundation81]

Yea that would be the great but it dont help me right now.
I know a studio i went to a long time ago the guy was a drummer and he could fix drum stuff i dont know if it was through midi or what but our old drummer had a lazy left foot and he could fix it perfect. Not 100% sure how he did it but he did so i know its posible just need to know the ways of going about this and if i need to trigger drums??

[bfoundation81]

well how do i move in place if he is like missing kicks were he is spossed to be running the double bass?? kinda lost there

[Tim Brown]

Originally Posted by bfoundation81

well how do i move in place if he is like missing kicks were he is spossed to be running the double bass?? kinda lost there

Then you would have to copy and paste those missed strikes in.


Tim

[PlnsMstkn4Jacob]

Drumagog has an option that says Auto-align. I think that works sometimes for cleaning up sloppy off time hits, maybe, I'm not really sure.

While we're on this subject, what are your views on fixing up sloppy musician's errors on a recording?

Just the other day I recorded a band, and I went through and edited the shit out of the guitars and bass, parts where they would kick in too soon I would cut back to make them punch in with the drums. At one point in the song the bass player was obviously not paying attention and was playing the bass riff backwards to the guitar and so the notes sounded really off and ruined that part of the song. So I went in there and cut up the bass riff and put the right notes in the right place. It sounds just fine. I'll give myself credit for doing really clean seamless edits. But then I think about it and I'm not sure if I should even do these edits.

On one hand, you make these edits and then you show the band and they're going to really impressed with the engineer and with themselves, plus your recording is going to sound better then if the music is all over the place. On the other hand, it's kind of cheating, because you're manipulating their ability as a musician, and they may never get better if the think they are that good by listening to their recordings and not hearing these flaws that were originally there.

But I guess as a producer/engineer, it's my job to make them SOUND good by doing whatever it takes, and to not worry about what they sound like live or in practice or with some other engineer.

What's everybody's thoughts?

[SillyBee]

Originally Posted by bfoundation81

ok im recording a drummer that is a little sloppy when running double bass kicks. Im using drumagog to replace kick and snare cause my room sucks. Is there any easy way to fix the double bass? Im using protools and really am kinda lost in what to do here

Have you tried to use a "click track"?

[jonnyc]

Man you need to learn your pro tools. Just cut and paste until you get things lined up. I know you're probably thinking that'll take forever, and you're right, but that what pro tools is all about, editing. I had a shitty drummer in and no good drum samples. So I made my own and copied and pasted until his tracks sounded good and tight, took about 10 hours total per track. There are probably easier ways but its how I do it and it works.

[bfoundation81]

how do i edit a double bass track to get them to roll??? i know i could take a snare thats on like 2 and 4 beat and easily cut and paste a snare hit but i dont know how to get kicks to roll or edit them to roll. im kinda lost on this part. I would have to have him just roll his kick drums and get a good take and edit it in that way??? or is there another way

[Tim Brown]

To be honest, unless you're hired as a Producer - It's not your problem if they can't play.


Tim

[bfoundation81]

its not that things are not lined up either its that there is actually fumbling on rolling the doubple kick pedals. its all in time and everything. Its not like a kick here and there either its spossed to be running the double bass. I know how to cut a hit and paste it somewere if like one kick hit is wrong of off i can fix that.

[bfoundation81]

well my name is on the recording so i would like to fix it if possible but i dont wana have to go buy more gear or software but was hoping maybe there is a simple fix i could try.

[pandamonk]

Take a sample of one bit he gets right and copy it over the bits he plays wrong/sloppy

[SillyBee]

Originally Posted by bfoundation81

its not that things are not lined up either its that there is actually fumbling on rolling the doubple kick pedals. its all in time and everything. Its not like a kick here and there either its spossed to be running the double bass. I know how to cut a hit and paste it somewere if like one kick hit is wrong of off i can fix that.

Then have him not do double kick patterns...let him hear himself.

[PlnsMstkn4Jacob]

Your name is on the record, but people know the difference between a bad drummer and a bad engineer. Like I said earlier, I'm down with editing mistakes, within reason. Not if it's going to cause you a bunch of grief. The guy is a sloppy drummer, after he hears the recording he'll probably realize it's time to tighten up his performance. If he misses a drum hit, then you know how to stick a hit in there, but if he totally just butchered the kick drum rolls beyond repair, then too bad for him, it's time for him to get better.

[goodbyebluesky]

Originally Posted by SillyBee

Then have him not do double kick patterns...let him hear himself.

I second that! Make him evaluate his playing before you let them expect you to "fix it in the mix".

I had many a disapointing experience thinking my drum part(s) for some song were the shizz.... until I saw video footage of my band at some shows. It took that to make me realize I had to alter my playing. I was doing stuff I THOUGHT worked, but... once you're on the outside looking in you have a clearer perspective than you do while actually playing.

It might be hard for the guy. The band might have to adjust tempos so he can keep up or even eliminate some DB parts, or maybe it will be a bootcrack in the bum to get the guy practicing.

[Farview]

Originally Posted by PlnsMstkn4Jacob

Drumagog has an option that says Auto-align. I think that works sometimes for cleaning up sloppy off time hits, maybe, I'm not really sure.
?

No, that isn't what it does. It aligns the transient of the sample with the transient of the hit it is replacing.

[Farview]

Here is wwhat I used to do.
Take an SM58, plug it into a preamp and place it between your knees.
Where ever there are sloppy parts, 're-perform' those parts by slapping the part out on the mic. Use that to trigger drumagog.

Better yet, have the drummer do it. I am a firm believer in having people fix as amny of their mistakes as they can. The drummer will start to see the point of practicing after having to redo all of his blast beats.

[bfoundation81]

farview you are awsome i was thinking about that but was not 100% sure yea im gona take a mic and have him do the double bass part with his hands and i will just use a sample from drumagog.

This guy already knows he needs alot of work on double bass skillz but we are already recording so i wana make it the best it can be with what we got!!!

[Cloneboy Studio]

Originally Posted by bfoundation81

Yea that would be the great but it dont help me right now. I know a studio i went to a long time ago the guy was a drummer and he could fix drum stuff i dont know if it was through midi or what but our old drummer had a lazy left foot and he could fix it perfect. Not 100% sure how he did it but he did so i know its posible just need to know the ways of going about this and if i need to trigger drums??

Dude, you are seriously screwed if you are this green to editing. Do you realize how *TRICKY* the drum edits you are going to be doing are for a noob?

I really, really, really hope you recorded to a click track so you have some manner of a grid/time clock to edit to.

My opinion: just let it suck, because that is going to be a lot easier than putting a few dozen hours into attempting some hardcore editing to end up with something that will still suck.

Honestly, you are walking into a living hell of a nightmare that will make you want to die. I can pull off some pretty amazingly insane edits in ProTools and I wouldn't want to mess with it.

[Farview]

Cloneboy is right. I have spent 12 hours editing a drum part to a grid, FOR 1 SONG. If you can't re-perform it with the 58 trick, let it suck.

[PlnsMstkn4Jacob]

I think we've all learned something in these past few days, and that sometimes you just have to "let it suck".

[drummercat]

yes........it is too difficult to just remove the kicks....the kick sound should be bleeded in the overheads and other mics.......so are you going to remove the kicks in every tracks??

I agree, "let it suck", and tell the drummer do another take.

he / she should practice enough before recording anything.

Originally Posted by PlnsMstkn4Jacob

I think we've all learned something in these past few days, and that sometimes you just have to "let it suck".

[Farview]

If you high pass the overheads and turn them down, the kick in the overhead issue is not a problem.