SM7's(NOT57's) vs. B-2 pros as overheads?!

[RCAGuy05]

I live in my room with all my insturments and don't prefer to do extensive sound treatment at this point. Anyways I've been strongly considering going dynamic so that I can zero in on the drumset sounds and not require any sound treatment to get good sound. I'm planning on using the "Led Zepplin stereo above/behind drummer's head" drum micing method using either SM7 dynamics or Behringer B-2 pro LDC's that can switch to cardiod.
It seems you guys aren't really recommending 57's as overheads, yet what about the legendary SM7's? Supposed to be a very beefed up and accelerated version of the 57's. I have one B2-pro and may get another one and use those for overheads instead. They are basically very similar to B-1's but have 10 db attenuator and pattern switching. Am I wasting cash by considering 2 SM7's for this use? Should I just stick with the B-2 pros for(basically beefed up B-1's so use them as referance as well) the whole Led zepplin overhead deal? The B-2 pro's can go cardioid as well so thats why I am asking if its worth it.
Or do you think the SM7 would sound fat, clear/clean and not be affected by the room? Any advice greatly appreciated.

[Tim Brown]

Why would you want dynamic mic's as overheads? That makes no sense - it won't be nearly as brilliant/"crisp" sounding as a condensor.

If you want to cut out more ofthe room sound, you'll need a tighter pattern condenser, such as supercardioid or hypercardioid, and I would go with a small diaphram condenser. I'm not a familiar with the Behringer B2, but isn't that a Large Diaphragm Condenser? If som, that will pick up a lot of the room.


I wouldn't use the SM7 for that purpose. I have used one for a kick drum before - and I've used one to mic a guitar amp. The mic exceeded my expectations in both of those instances, but I would not want to use one for an overhead on a drumkit.

Look for a pair of MXL 603's....the pair should run you somewhere around $200

http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp...ry=Microphones


Tim

[bleyrad]

Tim is right, you are confusing the concept of dynamic mics with the concept of cardioid mics. Unless you are specifically looking for a trashy/low-fi overhead sound, use condensers.
The MXL 603's are EXCELLENT as overheads, especially when modded - I am able to get sounds out of them that I wouldn't trade for the most expensive pencil condensers in the world - I'm not kidding.
However, they are also a very very wide cardioid pattern. Nearly to the point of omnidirectionality. I would stay away from them if you have a particularily bad room.
Get something with a tighter pattern. Or, better yet, just bite the bullet and treat the room properly - you will be thanking yourself later.

[Tim Brown]

Originally Posted by bleyrad

Tim is right, you are confusing the concept of dynamic mics with the concept of cardioid mics. Unless you are specifically looking for a trashy/low-fi overhead sound, use condensers.
The MXL 603's are EXCELLENT as overheads, especially when modded - I am able to get sounds out of them that I wouldn't trade for the most expensive pencil condensers in the world - I'm not kidding.
However, they are also a very very wide cardioid pattern. Nearly to the point of omnidirectionality. I would stay away from them if you have a particularily bad room.
Get something with a tighter pattern. Or, better yet, just bite the bullet and treat the room properly - you will be thanking yourself later.

You know, I need to record my drums in a different room some time - everyone keeps saying they are really wide, but I can't tell because my room is totally dead.



Tim

[spitfire909x]

So if I have a treated room, should I use omnidirectional if it's available? I have the MXL604 (which sound great btw) which comes with cardoid and omni heads. Also, where would I learn about this modding? I heard the 604 and 603 are virtually the same thing soo..

[Tim Brown]

Originally Posted by spitfire909x

So if I have a treated room, should I use omnidirectional if it's available? I have the MXL604 (which sound great btw) which comes with cardoid and omni heads. Also, where would I learn about this modding? I heard the 604 and 603 are virtually the same thing soo..

Personally, I wouldn't use an Omni. EVER. LOL

I used an Omni by Earthworks to record a harmonium, and the stupid thing also picked up a car driving by the street behind my house!
GRRR. That sucked, I had to get pretty creative to get that car out of my mixes. (We copied the track, reversed the phase on the track and mixed it in, and since the car was a low end "hum" for a few seconds, it jut disappeared. Luckily the Harmonium part was virtually all midrange, so it's being out of phase didn't matter to me.

So after that little experience, I won't use Omni's for recording.


Tim

[Richard Monroe]

Yo Spitfire! If I was you, by now, I'd be confused. Let's try to get it less confusing. First, the reason why we think of dynamics as being more friendly to a bad room is that thay usually (not always) are less sensitive than condensers, and are less subject to low level room reflections. This means that you have to close mic sources, so the input gain can be kept low, for the same reasons. You want to reduce the mic's reach to dial out the room. A drum kit is a big thing, that produces a lot of different sounds in different places.
To close mic *that*, you'd have to put a dynamic omni (say a Beyer) on every damn crash, ride, hi-hat, etc. It would be expensive, crowded, and gobble up beaucoup channels. It might actually sound good, if the engineer could avoid or correct for phase issues. Over years, engineers have found that it uses less channels and mics, and is simpler, to use one or two overhead mics with or without a room mic in front of the kit. Kick and snare are close mic'd, and sometimes the snare gets an underneath mic also. Most folks these days will add rack and floor tom close mics.

Because the overheads are farther away, and are focused on a larger total area, the room becomes more of a factor. If you put up SM7's as overheads, I think you will find the signal weak, requiring much preamping, and you'll still hear the room. You will, however, find that the SM7 will rock on toms and snare and cabs and vox and will stick sround for years after the cheap condensers have been upgraded.

Bottom line-- It's tough to reduce the effect of a bad room. "Untreated" is not the same thing. Some untreated rooms sound pretty good, because they are good rooms. Find one. Then modify it somewhat. In the meantime, get a pair of cheap small diaphragm mics, like MXL603/604 for overheads, and get a good dynamic like SM-7b as soon as you can afford it. Good luck.-Richie