close micing everything, anyone had success?

[thedude400]

I want to close mic everything on my drumset except for the ride which I will deal with through the right overhead . I know there are many out there who feel that using any more than 4 mics (and sometimes 2) is a waste of time and money but I have to believe that there are people out there who close mic everything and love it. The idea of being able to control everything individually during mixdown excites me, in fact it makes me ecstatic.

Does anyone swear by this way of recording or swear against it?

I plan on going about it like this:

2 MC012's one on each crash
An MXL603 on the hi hat
58's on the toms
57's on the snare and the kick side of the bass drum
A D112 or a Beta52 on the kick hole

Has anyone achieved happiness with this setup or one similar?
Am I headed for one massive phasing letdown?

[PlnsMstkn4Jacob]

I wouldn't close mic the crashes, it always just sounds too harsh. In fact I try to keep my overhead mics as high as they can go, because I prefer a more subtle soft cymbal sound. I did a recording yesterday and tried some new mic techniques, some of which I recently learned on here. Here was my setup.

I used 2 MXL 990's for overheads, set at a slight angle towards the drum set. An AKG Perception 200 over the center of the drum set, but aimed at the ceiling with it switched to bass rolloff. I placed an SM57 underneath the snare and used one on top as well. I placed it about 6 inches away from the drum head(as opposed to my old way of doing it which was like 2 inches away, and it made a world of difference.) I used SM57's on each tom, and a a Beta52 on the kick drum soundhole, with about half of the mic inside the hole.

When I went to mix, I ended up scrapping the bottom snare mic as it was completely not needed using the new 6 inch snare mic technique. I wasnt happy with the toms sound so I ended up replacing them with triggered tom sounds. The Perception 200 aimed at the ceiling turned out great as I added a touch of reverb to it and so I didn't have to add reverb to the other 2 overheads or any of the individual drums.

Close micing is nice because you can adjust individual levels EQ settings and effects for each drum. I personally would only use like 2 mics on a drum set in some rare occasions. But don't depend on close mics, make sure your overheads sound good first. Start with those and slowly add in your snare, kick, etc. to add punch and emphasize certain sounds.

[easychair]

I do it all the time live. For me, true overheads would be a nightmare. I close mic the hats and ride, and place the mics so they (hopefully) get enough of the other cymbals, and reject as much of the drums as possible. Sometimes I toss another up if I have to or want to. I agree with Jacob about the snare mic, if you don't use a set of overheads. Really close mic'ing misses some of the snare drum's tone, if you ask me.


I don't usually have enough time to deal with phasing issues from placement, and roll off the low end on the cymbal mics as high as I need to. In the studio, you could work on positioning more, just like working it when you do stereo overheads and a snare mic. And there's no saying you can't close mic and use OHs, too.

For some great stuff like this, where everything seems to be close mic'ed, check out Joe's Garage by FZ. The shit is out of control.

[reshp1]

The only thing I would suggest is to gate the toms and maybe even the cymbals (which may be tough to do). Basically cut any potential phase issues by turning off mics except when they are picking up their intended source. With that many mics, there's going to be some smearing of transients and phase issues if you don't.

[Tim Brown]

Originally Posted by thedude400

I want to close mic everything on my drumset except for the ride which I will deal with through the right overhead . I know there are many out there who feel that using any more than 4 mics (and sometimes 2) is a waste of time and money but I have to believe that there are people out there who close mic everything and love it. The idea of being able to control everything individually during mixdown excites me, in fact it makes me ecstatic.

Does anyone swear by this way of recording or swear against it?

I plan on going about it like this:

2 MC012's one on each crash
An MXL603 on the hi hat
58's on the toms
57's on the snare and the kick side of the bass drum
A D112 or a Beta52 on the kick hole

Has anyone achieved happiness with this setup or one similar?
Am I headed for one massive phasing letdown?

I'll give you my honest answer.

If I were close mic'ing everything on the kit - I wouldn't even bother with overheads. You'll hear all of the cymbals through the tom mic's, I wouldn't try to "close mic" the cymbals either.....proximity effect reall sucks on those. LOL


Try it, and see what happens.....beore I started mainly using the overheads - I just close mic'ed the drums, and the only cymbal sounds I got were what came through the tom mic's - and that is how I recorded drums for 10 years - and about 15 of the bands that I recorded went on to release and sell that material in the local market, so it isn't as if the sound is "unusable".



Tim

[easychair]

Whoops-

After reading the last two posts, I wanted to add that I gate/expand the drums, and use tight pattern mics (Shure Betas, mostly).

[jeff5xo]

Tim's right to an extent. However, using 58's on the toms wouldn't be my first choice. Maybe I'm wrong here, but I know 57's have a UGLY off axis sound making the cymbals sound harsh and well.....nasty. I know this because I used a 57 on the hi-tom and had to mute it except for when it was being played. I'm unsure if the 58 acts in the same way, but from what I've heard it does.

[LeeRosario]

Close mic everything?

DONT PAINT WITH ONE COLOR!

[robin watson]

K&K don't sell them anymore (which is perhaps a bad sign to begin with!), but I have a set of their 'Hot Spot' cymbal transducers - tiny little things that you'd attach to the underside of the cymbal (in slightly different positions depending on whether it's a ride or crash/splash). I never got around to really putting them through their paces (since the band at the time folded before any serious recording could take place).

I've always wanted to haul them out again and try (as suggested above) close mic'ing, relying on the tom mics to catch the cymbals, and then perhaps blend in some of the transducer sound. Just never tried it.

[Farview]

I close mic everything except the cymbals. Always. Hat and ride on occasion.
Close micing crashes, splashes and chinas is generally a bad idea. Close micing toms, kicks and snares is my prefered way of doing things. If all you have are 58's, they will work, but if you can get hold of some sennheiser 604's you would be in really good shape.

BTW, if you use the beta 58, put it just in the hole of the kick. If you use the D112, put it inside the kick a couple inches from batter head. These mics favor these placements.

For examples of close mic'd drums, go to www.soundclick.com/sillyhat

[Licketysplit]

I usually close mic all the drums, and have either one or a pair of condensor mics for the cymbals. I find I get a good sound this way - each drum is picked up well and you can choose how much cymbals you get in the mix with the overheads, usually the tom mics pick them up enough though, especially using Pro Sonix's (they're really bright and projecting).

[RAMI]

I only use 4 mics: Snare, kik and 2 overheads. I wouldn't even want to begin dealing with more than that until I learn more about what I'm doing ( and I have a feeling I still wouldn't close mic, but that's just my opinion). I try to get my main sound from my overheads, and bring in as much kik and snare as I need.
Even with close micing, a good room and drum sound will matter as always, so make sure your drums sound as good as they can before you go anywhere near them with a mic.

[fldrummer]

If you close mic everything you will lose the whole feel and image. It's cool for live because it just makes life easier but in the studio? No way....

I would MUCH rather have a good pair of overheads mic, all the drums, maybe hats then have stereo room mics or even just one room mic.

Get the overheads going first then bring up the kick real slow just so you can feel the punch then add a little snare to bring it upfront. Use the tom mics to just bring them out more. Now the room mics will really open everything. This is what the drum kit should sound like! Overheads have always been the base of the drum sound. Close mics just bring stuff out a little. When you close mic everything and depend only on these mics it will have a very strange sound with no true stereo image.

I always thought a recording is suppose to sound like you were sitting watching the person play Not all of this super in your face over compressed mumbojumbo.


Anyways... If you really want to track with 20 mics so you just have all the options and see what you like go ahead! Just because you track it dosent mean you have to use it.

It all depnends on what sound you want and how the drums sound in the room!

Why do you want 58's on toms? The 58 is just the "vocal" version of the 57 with a pop filter on it.

[Farview]

Try the 'overhead and a kick' thing on death metal CD or anything technical like Dream Theater. It won't work.

[thedude400]

I think I'm going to stick with overheads and just upgrade my mics to Oktava MK-019's. But I would really like control of the hi-hat so I will definitely pick up a marshall MXL for that. The hi-hat can tent to be overwhelming and too sizzling, high endy and in your face. It would be good to be able to tame that without taking away from the hi-end of the crashes (which I like and think is important. ) Having control of the kick and snare seem most important because they give the song the actual "pulsating" up and down feel. I think a hi-hat, 2 overheads, a kick , and a snare mic might be just what the doctor ordered.

[RAMI]

The last thing you need is a hi-hat mic.

[thedude400]

Originally Posted by RAMI

The last thing you need is a hi-hat mic.

nah, I am definitely gonna want a hi-hat mic. I don't want the hat to be under the same treatment as the overheads (EQ, verb, etc). If thats not your style I understand, but it's mine.

[RAMI]

I hope it works out for you.

But I'm wondering why you would not want the hi hat to get the same treatment as the cymbals.

I will also place a bet that you'll realise the hi hat mic will cause you more problems than it's worth. It's got nothing to so with "style". Good luck.

[thedude400]

well maybe you're right. But as for now I've been using this crappy dynamic mic on the hat and sometimes I end up bringing it down below the OH's to the point where its basically not needed. But other times I like having control of it for reverbs and such. I'm not gonna use one just to use one so if I eventually do realize I don't need it then I'll eat my words.

[RAMI]

You're right, you should definitely try it. It's not a matter of eating your words. If it doesn't work, at least you can say you tried.

[corban]

Originally Posted by Tim Brown

I'll give you my honest answer.

If I were close mic'ing everything on the kit - I wouldn't even bother with overheads. You'll hear all of the cymbals through the tom mic's, I wouldn't try to "close mic" the cymbals either.....proximity effect reall sucks on those. LOL

Try it, and see what happens.....beore I started mainly using the overheads - I just close mic'ed the drums, and the only cymbal sounds I got were what came through the tom mic's - and that is how I recorded drums for 10 years - and about 15 of the bands that I recorded went on to release and sell that material in the local market, so it isn't as if the sound is "unusable".

Tim

My problem with this is that then you don't have really any overhead sound for your kit, including your snare. I'm not saying it couldn't sound decent, I just don't think it's gonna get anywhere close to the best sound for your kit. Even if I close mic the toms I start with a good overhead sound and then gate the toms when not being used.

[cobradenim]

Originally Posted by thedude400

...The hi-hat can tent to be overwhelming and too sizzling, high endy and in your face. It would be good to be able to tame that without taking away from the hi-end of the crashes (which I like and think is important. ) ....

Or, you could use darker hi-hats. Brighter hi hats don't record very easily. However, darker hats record well (i.e 15" Zildjian New Beats). But It all depends on the sound you're after.

[edyer]

Originally Posted by thedude400

I think I'm going to stick with overheads and just upgrade my mics to Oktava MK-019's. But I would really like control of the hi-hat so I will definitely pick up a marshall MXL for that. The hi-hat can tent to be overwhelming and too sizzling, high endy and in your face. It would be good to be able to tame that without taking away from the hi-end of the crashes (which I like and think is important. ) Having control of the kick and snare seem most important because they give the song the actual "pulsating" up and down feel. I think a hi-hat, 2 overheads, a kick , and a snare mic might be just what the doctor ordered.

Save your cash and wait until you can buy some better mics. The octavas don't do really well on drums. I still have a few of them but they don't get used on anything with a lot of transients.great for some things.

Look at a set of earthworks tc 20s. If you can find them used great, the older ones were called SROs. New They are under $800. You don't need to buy matched. The Qc is very good. Other good mics that won't cripple you are the josephson c42s or the neumann 184s. The beauty of mics like those is that if you don't like them you can sell them and not take a bath.

[gumplunger]

You can certainly get very good results with close mic'ing everything, just gotta be careful. Here's a picture from the recording of In Flames' new album: