Ddx3216

[thedude400]

Will the DDX3216 make my 10-channel interface obsolete? Or will I still need it? And if I am using this behringer how will my interface still be useful/handy?

Anyone have one of these? They look pretty cool and cheap. Motorized faders, 24-bit, 4 band EQ's on each channel, a bunch of pre-amps, and a bunch of other things.

Any one forbid or recommend the purchase of one of these?

http://www.behringer.com/DDX3216/index.cfm?lang=ENG

[Halion]

I'll try sum it up as clearly as my mind allows me:
The Good Stuff:
- Motorized faders
- 24 bit
- erh..
The Bad Stuff:
- High Tendency of Breaking Down
- Noisy preamps with not an awefull lot of gain
- Noise AD convertors
- Very bad sounding EQ.
- Very bad sounding Compressors
- need I say more...

Basicly, berhinger stuff is cheap, for a very good reason. If you want decent quality anything that doesn't break down, don't buy behringer. We all gotta start something, just don't think your gonna get a full-package-deal for a low price out of this one. Sorry mate.

[thedude400]

Yeah I figured there was a catch somewhere. What would you recommend along these lines that would do alot better job than the behringer? I know things of these nature tend to be expensive but..... any ideas? I can't use this software mixer much longer.

[Halion]

You wanna go completely computerless?

[SonicAlbert]

If you want a digital mixer, I'd suggest that you take a look at other boards like the Tascam DM-24, Panasonic/RAMSA DA7, or the Yamaha O1V or O3D.

[thedude400]

No I don't wanna go completely computerless, I just want my mixdown experience to be more faders and knobs and less mouse clicking. It seems that would be less frusterating and just plain easier. I want to use my computer for bouncing and mastering.

Would it be possible to route my final recorded tracks from my computer/interface into a 24-bit board with some decent equalizers, dial in some rack effects, pan accordingly, and then run it out of the board back into the first 2 ins on the computer/interface? Then take that final mixed down wave and master it on the computer, then burn it. Sorry I'm kind of new to this so I don't really know how it's done. Is this form of recording just nonsense crazy talk or do people really do it this way?

Am I thinking like someone who might see ADAT in his future or can my dream of a more hands on mixdown come true while still using my computer as a useful tool?

[Halion]

Originally Posted by thedude400

No I don't wanna go completely computerless, I just want my mixdown experience to be more faders and knobs and less mouse clicking. It seems that would be less frusterating and just plain easier. I want to use my computer for bouncing and mastering.

Would it be possible to route my final recorded tracks from my computer/interface into a 24-bit board with some decent equalizers, dial in some rack effects, pan accordingly, and then run it out of the board back into the first 2 ins on the computer/interface? Then take that final mixed down wave and master it on the computer, then burn it. Sorry I'm kind of new to this so I don't really know how it's done. Is this form of recording just nonsense crazy talk or do people really do it this way?

Am I thinking like someone who might see ADAT in his future or can my dream of a more hands on mixdown come true while still using my computer as a useful tool?

No that is a way it can be done, but your looking at 1k PER piece of rack gear. That's how the big boys do it. Use the computer primarilly as a storage device for the tracks, while all the processing stays out of the box and under the fingers. We're talking SSL consoles of thousands after thousands of dollars here though.

If I were you I'd get a midi controller for you sequencer. For once, I'm gonna suggest a behringer product:
http://www.behringer.com/BCF2000/index.cfm?lang=ENG
For 250 dollars you have a bunch of faders and knobs under your fingers that control virtual knobs inside your computer. This way, you keep the processing in the box (equals the cheap but good way) while still having something to do with your hands (don't read into that ) Buy one of these aswell if you want even more knobs:
http://www.behringer.com/BCR2000/index.cfm?lang=ENG
Spend the rest of your money on a UAD1 project pack:
http://www.zzounds.com/item--UADPROPACK
This will give you awesome sounding plugins that will not stress your computer one bit. This way, you'll have all the control you want and a lot, I mean ALOT better sound quality than going through the cheapy behringer mixer you suggested.

[SonicAlbert]

Originally Posted by thedude400

Would it be possible to route my final recorded tracks from my computer/interface into a 24-bit board with some decent equalizers, dial in some rack effects, pan accordingly, and then run it out of the board back into the first 2 ins on the computer/interface? Then take that final mixed down wave and master it on the computer, then burn it. Sorry I'm kind of new to this so I don't really know how it's done. Is this form of recording just nonsense crazy talk or do people really do it this way?

That's not crazy talk at all!

That's pretty much exactly how I do it myself. It's a quite convenient way to work, and you don't need super expensive SSL mixers to do it.

If you are tired of mousing and clicking, you could also get a control surface for your DAW and continue mixing in the computer.

[thedude400]

I'm definitely gonna look into those units you all suggested. I'm gonna have to do some serious homework to fully understand how to get all of this to work as well as possible. Thanks for the help guys. I'm ready to get this hands on mixdown project underway.

[thedude400]

One more quick question. I have a lexicon MPX500 on my rack right now and will be getting an equalizer and compressor and possibly even more units. Is there such a board that is 24-bit with at least 4 aux sends per channel and 16-32 channels ? A board thats only real purpose is for dialing in effects (reverbs,compression, equalizers) that can be used for mixdown? Is this even possible?

(Sorry Halion and sonic albert. The answer to this question might be precisely what you answered before? I don't quite know what an SSL mixer is and am easily confused. I read the specs of those units but I am leaning towards outboard processing and intruments and it seems these focus more towards midi and software processing. I also have a Kurzweil K2500 in the mail so as for now will have little need for software synths, midi or things along those lines.)

I think I'm on the right track, I just need one more push.

[Halion]

You'll get there

An SSL console is just a really big really expensive mixer.

I'm sure there are mixers with 4 auxes per channel and 16 to 32 channels, but I still think it's not wise to buy a mixer just for that.

If you want to use outboard rack gear to process your audio, you might be better off with a soundcard with 8 or more inputs and outputs. That you can record things through channels 1 to 4 while using channels 5 to 8 to send channels back and forth between the computer and your rack gear. You really don't need a mixer for that.

Also, if you're thinking of using the computer as just a storage device, then it would really, really not smart to go for just a mixer. Because you'll have to get the sound right the very first time, because you are actually recording everything (tracks with fx on them) into the computer. That gives you 0 control at a later point. Might work, but you're screwed if that reverb turns out to be a little too overwhelming, for example.

[SonicAlbert]

The mixers I mentioned earlier in this thread, the Tascam DM-24, Panasonic/RAMSA DA7, or the Yamaha O1V or O3D will do what you want. Each have their own set of features and differences though, so do some research and see which has the features you like. I use the Tascam DM-24.

[thedude400]

Yeah I have a 8 channel Aardvark interface with inserts and 8 outs but I just haven't tackled using it yet because I'm still deciding how I wanna do my recording. I imagine I will try dialing in effects via the inserts and see how I like it.

Sonic Albert, yeah I read up on those units you mentioned. I'm liking the DA-7 alot. In fact I'm thinking about getting one used on ebay. I will most likely need another soundcard/interface with 8 outs to use it with 16 channel ability in correlation with the Panasonic right?

Thanks again for the help guys. I will definitely try to credit you if I achieve anything cool with this stuff.

[Halion]

No problem mate. If you want to have every track on a mixer send to and from the computer than you need at least that number of inputs and outputs on your soundcard aswell, so yes, you'd need another card if your current one has only 8 ins/outs.

[thedude400]

Panasonic/Ramsa DA-7 it is. It's got everything I'm looking for. Now I just need the patience to save up for it. Thats gonna be even harder than the setup.

[LeeRosario]

I'm always weary of anything that says "worlds cheapest" anything.

Your better off buying a small soundcraft mixer or Mackie with XDRs.


Also, something that you said that really caught my eye:

"I want mixing to be more faders and knobs".

That's going to mean A/D conversions and good word clock (if you're recording from one thing and routing your signal to something else). Sonically, you're better off mixing "inside the box".

Your sound can actually get worse if you start routing out of your computer, to the mixer, to your coffee machine, then into the toaster, then back into your computer. It's a horrible world to deal with.

Now...
If only coffee machines came with optical ADAT and spdif

[thedude400]

Yes this is true but if I'm working out of a 24-bit interface into 24-bit board the degradation to the signal will be rather minimal if I'm not mistaken. The only real degradation will be the unbalanced 1/4" cable outs from the interfaces to the Panasonic/Ramsa DA-7. But I'm not really sure how much this will hurt the signal quality , anybody know?

Oh and my coffee maker is 32-bit.

[SonicAlbert]

What you really want to do is go digitally from the computer to the board. So, a soundcard with enough digital outputs and a digital board with enough digital inputs. I use a combination of the Tascam DM-24 with a MOTU 2408mkII and it works really well.

The Tascam can be outfitted with a firewire board, so the mixer itself becomes the soundcard, just connect it to the computer with a firewire cable.

[thedude400]

Is there such a card with up to 16 digital outs or am I looking at getting like 2 MOTU 896's? Better yet, can a 1/4" jack carry a 24-bit digital signal? Sorry, I'm still strugglin with this stuff.

[LeeRosario]

Originally Posted by thedude400

Better yet, can a 1/4" jack carry a 24-bit digital signal? Sorry, I'm still strugglin with this stuff.

Well it can, but quarter jacks are electrical, not digital.


Albert's explination is good advise for this situation.

[thedude400]

How can I achieve 16 plus digital outs (to run into the DAW) if I have 2 Aardvark cards (8 1/4" outs and 2 spdif on each)? I know I will be needing a word clock. Do I also need an A/D converter or will I need to ditch the aardvarks for new soundcards with different (more) capabilities?

[LeeRosario]

Originally Posted by thedude400

How can I achieve 16 plus digital outs (to run into the DAW) if I have 2 Aardvark cards (8 1/4" outs and 2 spdif on each)? I know I will be needing a word clock. Do I also need an A/D converter or will I need to ditch the aardvarks for new soundcards with different (more) capabilities?

oh no no.


I couldn't tell you about the Aardvark setup, I've never used it before, but a note on the work clock.

It's not worth the bother. Well it is, but a good master world clock usually crashes your wallet and maxes out your credit cards. The same with good sample rate conversion.

I've talked a little about workclock, but I haven't really gone in detail about when it's exactly worth the investment. At this level, it's just not enough bang for the buck.

[SonicAlbert]

Well, let me put it this way:

If I had 16 channels of DA analog conversion, I'd be looking for an analog mixer.

If I had a soundcard with 16-24 channels of digital connections, I'd be looking for a digital mixer.

The point being, I would not want to subject my music to all those conversions if you are going from your DAW to analog, to digital again into the mixer, then to analog again if you are going to a compressor or eq, then back to digital to get it back into the mixer. I'm assuming that you can take the stereo mix from the digital mixer digitally into the DAW.

So you need to look at the big picture and view your mixing setup as one system. Make it work how you want it to work. If you want to mix on a digital mixer, then you should have soundcards that support that so you can avoid unnecessary conversions. If you want to continue to use your current soundcards, then at least think about how best to mix.

In your situation I might not even get a mixer, but connect my outboard to the soundcards, and use them basically as busses and fx sends from the DAW mixer. There are so many ways to do this it is mind boggling.

[thedude400]

yeah. Thanks for the replies you guys. I think I know what my problem is. I'm afraid of analog so I'm wanting all this digital stuff. I mean analog still sounds good right, big named people use it. It's not like analog sounds like a cassette tape. I'm just confused as to why a sound card would convert analog signal to digital for use on a computer, but then have a conversion back to analog in the form of 8 1/4" jack outputs. I know alot of people don't use those outputs, but I mean what in the heck are the point of those. Why go digital if you're gonna go analog again, why not stay analog the whole time?

Maybe I'll just pick up a mackie analog board instead of dropping a load of money on digital stuff that takes money away from the actual things that help me MAKE cool sounds and songs like guitars, effects, and keys. I had no idea the desire to stay digital and have actual knobs and faders to mix down with was so darn expensive.

[SonicAlbert]

I find the combination I like best is to record and edit in a DAW, mix analog, and then record back to stereo tracks in the computer.