Pickups 101

[HapiCmpur]

I know nothing about after-market pickups. I've got a 20-year-old ES-335 with stock pickups (PAF reissues I think) , and I'm starting to crave a change. Problem is, I have no idea where to start. I need a primer.

I'm sure that each brand and model of after-market pickup has certain characteristics for which it is renowned and cherished. I'm also sure that any list of such characteristics would be highly subjective, but hey, I've got to start somewhere. So here are the questions:

1. Does anyone know of a good starting point for someone trying to learn a few things about pickups? Where can I find "Pickups 101" in book form or on the Web?

2. Does anyone think I'd be throwing my money away by replacing stock Gibson pickups that seem to be working just fine?

3. If you had an ES-335 and were inclined to upgrade it, what pickups would you chose and why? (And of course, if you actually have an ES-335 that you've upgraded, what pickups did you use and what results did you get?)

[guido #2]

IMO, Seymour Duncan makes some very fine after market P/Us
He has a very cool website, with sound for comparison
http://www.seymourduncan.com/index.shtml

KEEP your original P/Us. Your guitar is worth more with them!

[Light]

Go over to Seymour Duncan's website and read it all.

Also, Seymour Duncan at least did have, for a while, a warranty on there pickups, so that if you didn't like it, they would replace it for free with one of their pickups, though if there is a price difference you would need to cover that difference. Now, in my shop that does NOT mean that we will do the labor for free, but you do get the pickup itself. You can try as many Duncan pickups as you want. Although, you should check that they are still doing it.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

[ibanezrocks]

What kind of music do you want to play with it?
Seymour Duncan 59's are standard classic rock pickups.

[gbdweller]

Style of music and desired sound are personal tastes that would need to be addressed before any valid advise could be given. Most manufacturers offer tips on which pickups work with certain styles. Don't plan on installing your new pickups yourself, though. A hollow body is tricky to wire if you don't have the experience. While not an impossible task for the newbie, 335's require a few 'luthier tricks' to successfully wire.

[Doc Holiday]

Originally Posted by guido #2

KEEP your original P/Us. Your guitar is worth more with them!

Whatever you do, keep your original pickups!

[Clive Hugh]

Originally Posted by gbdweller

Style of music and desired sound are personal tastes that would need to be addressed before any valid advise could be given. Most manufacturers offer tips on which pickups work with certain styles. Don't plan on installing your new pickups yourself, though. A hollow body is tricky to wire if you don't have the experience. While not an impossible task for the newbie, 335's require a few 'luthier tricks' to successfully wire.

I wouldn't have been as subtle, 335's are a pain in the arse to change the pu's.
As a matter of interest the seymour SH59's are based on what is already in the 335 so there might not be too much to gain from installing those, I have them and like them, you might want to look at the DiMarzio line too, they are a quality product.

[bigwillz24]

You can't beat a Ford Pickup...

[HapiCmpur]

The folks at Gibson.com just responded to my request for info about the stock pickups on my 335. They told me that my guit was factory-equipped with Super Humbuckers with ceramic magnets and a dc resistance of about 7.8k.

I don't know what that means.

I've run some searches on "super humbuckers" but I'm not learning anything useful. Can anybody tell me anything about these pickups? It appears that Gibson now puts what they call "'57 Classic Humbuckers" on their 335s, but I don't know the difference and I don't know why Gibson made the switch.

[Middleman]

Leave those pickups alone. Buy an inexpensive guitar at GC and upgrade the electronics. Then you will have the sound you're after and the Gibson will retain its value. My 2 cents.

[Trent Reznor]

Keep that guitar like it is and if you want to mess with aftermarket pickups, get a different guitar and go with some Dimarzios. You seriously should look into getting some Dimarzio pickups, they are sweet. Here's some good info on them...

Dimarzio pickups

I like the super distortions myself.

[gbdweller]

Originally Posted by Middleman

Leave those pickups alone. Buy an inexpensive guitar at GC and upgrade the electronics. Then you will have the sound you're after and the Gibson will retain its value. My 2 cents.

I would definitely 2nd that. I have always been one to promote leaving collectibles original (except for my own of course. Can't leave them alone and plan on being buried with them all anyway ). At the very least, retain your originals.

[foo]

20 years old makes it a dot-neck reissue, I think (unless they put out another 335 at that time - anyone?).

Which should have PAF re-issues in it.

Are you sure it's 20 years old?

Anyway - if it is a dot-neck re-issue I agree with the 'do not take the pickups out' - because you should have a GREAT SOUNDING GUITAR!

What exactly is wrong with the sound? What do you want to do with it that it cannot do now?

[HapiCmpur]

Originally Posted by foo

20 years old makes it a dot-neck reissue, I think (unless they put out another 335 at that time - anyone?).

Yes, I'm pretty sure it's a dot re-issue.

Which should have PAF re-issues in it.

Don't know about that. Can PAF re-issues also be Super Humbuckers, or are those two different kinds of pickup?

Are you sure it's 20 years old?

I sent the serial number to Gibson's Support crew and they confirmed that it's an '81. That means she'll actually turn 25 later this year.

What exactly is wrong with the sound? What do you want to do with it that it cannot do now?

Truth be told, nothing's wrong with the sound, and if anything were wrong with the sound it would be me, not the pickups. I guess I'm like gbdweller in that I'm just tempted to experiment, but I can certainly see the logic of those of you who are suggesting that I experiment on a different guitar.

Bottom like is, I want to be able to sound like B.B. King by changing my pickups instead of by practicing. Surely there's a pickup out there that can make me a better player, right? Right?

[HapiCmpur]

Originally Posted by Middleman

Leave those pickups alone. Buy an inexpensive guitar at GC and upgrade the electronics. Then you will have the sound you're after and the Gibson will retain its value. My 2 cents.

Okay, I'm totally sold on this advice. But I still have no idea how to go about selecting pickups for any guitar. Too many variables. Let's say you want to sound like B.B. King, for instance. Even setting talent aside, there's still the guitar, the strings, the pickups, the amp, the pedals, and all the settings to futz with.

So to those of you who change out pickups on a regular basis, I ask: How do you make your selections?

[Trent Reznor]

Originally Posted by HapiCmpur

Okay, I'm totally sold on this advice. But I still have no idea how to go about selecting pickups for any guitar. Too many variables. Let's say you want to sound like B.B. King, for instance. Even setting talent aside, there's still the guitar, the strings, the pickups, the amp, the pedals, and all the settings to futz with.

So to those of you who change out pickups on a regular basis, I ask: How do you make your selections?

Personally I tend to get input from people who have tried multiple pickups in the same setup. A lot of people have experimented with them, only changing pickups and leaving everything else the same variable. www.keepmusicalive.com has quite a few pickup experts that have done just that and then shared their findings with everyone. Funny enough, with DiMarzio Pickups, the descriptions provided by DiMarzio very often are 100% correct when compared to individual opinions on differences and sounds. I can't say the same for other brands though, I guess they do their best.

[Light]

Originally Posted by Trent Reznor

Keep that guitar like it is and if you want to mess with aftermarket pickups, get a different guitar and go with some Dimarzios. You seriously should look into getting some Dimarzio pickups, they are sweet. Here's some good info on them...

Dimarzio pickups

I like the super distortions myself.

Sorry, but bullshit. A 1981 is not a particularly valuable Gibson. It is from one of the worst periods in their history, and is consiquently worth considerably less than you are thinking.

If the guitar is not doing what you want it to do, then do what it takes to MAKE it do what you want it to do. If you are worried about the value of the guitar, than don't put a Bigsby or anything on it, but feel free to swap out pickups. They can always be put back in when/if you decide to sell it. And if you want to be REALLY anal about it, you can remove them without unsoldering more than (if I remember correctly) two wires and the ground to the bridge.

Ceramic magents are stronger than alnico's, and 7.85k is low with a humbucking pickup. What that all adds up to is that they are probably very clean, articulate, and balanced. Decidedly NOT what you want if you play rock or blues. It will lack the character of a hotter pickup, though a hotter pickup will have a less balanced frequency response.

My advise: get some Seymour Duncan's for it. Not because they are the best pickup (though they are the best of the large after market pickup manufacturers), but because if you don't like a pickup they put in your guitar, they will pay for the new pickup to replace it. So try something. A Jazz in the neck and JB in the bridge is a common choice, though the Jazz is pretty close to what you already have. I like the combination of an Alnico II in the neck and a Pearly Gates in the bridge - they are slightly hotter than the classic pickups, and sound great when used to push a tube amp. Save your old pickups, and if the pots work use them. Anyone who is going to be bothered by the fact that you took the pickups out (particularly if you put them back in) is really too dumb to own the guitar.

On a related note, I had a guy call into the shop today and ask, "will it hurt the value of my guitar if I change out the broken tuneing key?"

Ah, no.

Making the guitar functional is never a bad idea. I mean, are they meant to sit in a glass case somewhere, or are they meant to be played?

Either make it so you can use it, or sell it. But don't just let it sit around. Guitars which are not played have lost their value completely, and that just depresses me.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

[Middleman]

I always go with Seymour Duncan because I can go to his site and hear what his pickups sound like. He will even create pickups around your own design and I have one of these in my 72 tele. But, I kept all of the original pickups for when I decide to sell someday.

[foo]

Originally Posted by Light

Sorry, but bullshit. A 1981 is not a particularly valuable Gibson. It is from one of the worst periods in their history, and is consiquently worth considerably less than you are thinking.

Usually Light you are right on the money with every piece of advice I''ve ever seen you give.

But I have to disagree with you on this one. An early 80s dot neck re-issue is a great guitar for doing BB King (and a whole bunch of other stuff). I've played several - and every one was a good one. and with 20 plus years of age on it, should be pretty well played in by now (unless it's sat around for the time and had no play - which usually means it's a dog 'cos no one wanted to play it).

Not particularly valuable is a value judgment - I would imagine in good shape it's probably $1,500 or more - not cheap, I would say. (Except next to a real dot neck of course!)

[Light]

Originally Posted by foo

Not particularly valuable is a value judgment - I would imagine in good shape it's probably $1,500 or more - not cheap, I would say. (Except next to a real dot neck of course!)

Not particularly valuable is a purely finacial issue. No serious collector is going to pay a lot of money for it. If it was from the sixties, that's one thing, but an eighties, no.

And I don't think I said anything about it not being a fine guitar, just that it is not a highly collectable guitar. Certainly, there is no reason not to do with it what ever you need to in order to make it play/sound the way you want.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

[Middleman]

I thought guitars from the eighties were the new vintage and guitars from the 60s were now museum pieces??

[HapiCmpur]

Originally Posted by Middleman

I thought guitars from the eighties were the new vintage and guitars from the 60s were now museum pieces??

Yeah, I was wondering about that myself. When does the turnover take place?

For the record, though, I don't ever intend to sell my Gibson. Therefore, its actual market value is of no interest to anyone but my widow.

[guido #2]

That's one of my theories. It's already starting to happen. Soon the average Joe won't be able to afford "vintage" and the next step will be the 70s, then the 80s, etc...
Right now the 50s are through the roof. See the 55 Strat on ebay at 46Gs and counting for evidence. http://tinyurl.com/8mtrt
The 60s are hot now. The 70s are starting to come on, too. My 74 Tele DeLuxe is in the 2 grand range now. Hell, my 96 Strat is worth a few dollars more than what I paid for it already.
So, in answer to the question "When does the turnover take place?,"
it seems like it will be in the next ten years (30 year interval).
Remember when we were kids? The word "vintage" didn't exist! There was no such thing as a "vintage guitar." They were just "used."


Damn. If I'd only known then what I know now .....