if i saved my tracks as mp3's, and not waves, can i still mix my tune down like that?

[LordSire]

i accidentally saved one of my wavefiles as a mp3 early on in my recording process. In my DAW, when you save as a certain format, anything saved after that will automatically, as a default, save as a mp3 also. I was trying not to "lose my vibe", so i just saved and kept going, without saving and switching BACK to .wav.

My question is; Can I go ahead and mix my tune in my multitrack view, and not have a difference in overall sound, with my "waves" being mp3s? Or should I convert them back to waves? (Or is it too late?)

[noisewreck]

You can mix, but once they're converted to mp3, the quality loss is permanent. You won't gain quality by converting them back to .wav.

[LordSire]

Originally Posted by noisewreck

You can mix, but once they're converted to mp3, the quality loss is permanent. You won't gain quality by converting them back to .wav.

Am I wrong? Is it a sensitive situation, to where i wont actually HEAR the loss? Or is it better to just say forget it and re-record my vocals? And if not, will adding effects and the like have a negative, audible affect on them?

[Dogman]

What bitrate does it save to? A higher one will help. I've worked with some MP3 files that sounded ok. They were 320k.

[metalhead28]

Originally Posted by LordSire

Am I wrong? Is it a sensitive situation, to where i wont actually HEAR the loss? Or is it better to just say forget it and re-record my vocals? And if not, will adding effects and the like have a negative, audible affect on them?

It does depend on how sensitive your ears are. Just like some people think that MP3's they downloaded from the internet sound fine, some people would be disgusted trying to use a compressed MP3 in a mix. However, as Dogman said, a higher bitrate would be alot better. If it sounds good enough to you than that's all that really matters.

[gullfo]

Originally Posted by LordSire

Am I wrong? Is it a sensitive situation, to where i wont actually HEAR the loss? Or is it better to just say forget it and re-record my vocals? And if not, will adding effects and the like have a negative, audible affect on them?

what application are you using? is this mp3 the result of the mix or does your app somehow use mp3 directly as a source file? i think that at worst case, comverting to a WAV file will at least stop any further degradation (assuming you make any "destructive" or permanent updates to the mp3 which would require it to be re-saved as mp3).

if the mp3 is only the result of the output of the mix, then you likely already have the source files in the format used by your application (for example, SONAR uses WAV files for source files but you can export as MP3 if you have that feature enabled).

[Massive Master]

Originally Posted by LordSire

Am I wrong? Is it a sensitive situation, to where i wont actually HEAR the loss? Or is it better to just say forget it and re-record my vocals? And if not, will adding effects and the like have a negative, audible affect on them?

As mentioned, a very high-res (320k) mp3, done by a very high-quality codec, can sound pretty good. Readily audible or not, there is permanent and substantial data loss.

I'm almost a little confused - You have a multi-track project going on and the *individual tracks* are MP3's?

[LordSire]

I hope you guys come back and read this. Lemme see....The bitrate is 128.
Yes, Massive; They are individual tracks WITHIN my multitrack mix. I was told by my cousin in Atlanta, that he has some quality engineers working on projects that he has produced. With me asking for mixing/mastering help, he told me to save my files (ind. tracks), as mp3's, and send them to him via email, and he'd be able to work on it from there. After I did that, IN CEP 2.1, when you save as a specific filename, it automatically sets itself to the LAST save command as default. So in this case, when I went to the next track, or file to save, it was defaulted to mp3's. I wasn't paying attention to that, and half of my next projects' tracks were saved as mp3's before i noticed. Then I was reading an old thread that stated that I SHOULDN'T be doing this; mixing my individual tracks in my multitrack, when they are mp3's, because of the loss and degradation of the sound. (?)

[Cloneboy Studio]

128 MP3's actually sound pretty nasty. I dunno... is there any way you can go back and find the original wav files?

[fraserhutch]

Originally Posted by LordSire

I hope you guys come back and read this. Lemme see....The bitrate is 128.
Yes, Massive; They are individual tracks WITHIN my multitrack mix. I was told by my cousin in Atlanta, that he has some quality engineers working on projects that he has produced. With me asking for mixing/mastering help, he told me to save my files (ind. tracks), as mp3's, and send them to him via email, and he'd be able to work on it from there. After I did that, IN CEP 2.1, when you save as a specific filename, it automatically sets itself to the LAST save command as default. So in this case, when I went to the next track, or file to save, it was defaulted to mp3's. I wasn't paying attention to that, and half of my next projects' tracks were saved as mp3's before i noticed. Then I was reading an old thread that stated that I SHOULDN'T be doing this; mixing my individual tracks in my multitrack, when they are mp3's, because of the loss and degradation of the sound. (?)

MP3s of that bitrate suffer a severe degradation of sound. Your cousin should NEVER have suggested that you send him mp3s; in fact, I do not know of anyone who works with mp3s at all. Rather, conversion to mp3 is performed as a last step (after mastering), and only if you absolutely must go there at all. As a rule, I never convert to mp3s, and leave it to the end user to do so if they choose.

[LordSire]

I must go and re-record my vocals, and save them as .wav for optimum results in sound quality, huh? I can pretty much conclude I was "led a stray" by my cousin, and he will be cussed out from here to Baghdad when i talk to him, because that's fuc#@& up!!! Especially for someone who claims they can "get the results" i want. I shoulda' known better. I guess that means i'm back to the "drawing board". If there is no way to get the same sound quality by using mp3's, then I WANT to re-record. So if that's the case, don't hold back by NOT telling me that's what i should do: By the time it's posted, I will have already cried and sucked it up, so i'll be pretty prepared to handle the "news".

[LordSire]

Originally Posted by Cloneboy Studio

128 MP3's actually sound pretty nasty. I dunno... is there any way you can go back and find the original wav files?

I messed up on this one, Clone, I know. I can just feel it, from the time I read that post on mp3's and mixing. Because the mp3's ARE the original files. That's what they were saved as from the onset. I know now that I should have never listened to my damn cousin. And to think I was about to go all the way to Atlanta, because I was told that I would be better off to record there, with all the "high-end" gear and "experienced" engineers he's supposed to have at his disposal. Yeah right!!!! I cant wait to tell him he's a dumb-ass, AND his so called engineers that said it was ok to send mp3's for mixing! Luckily, I'm an "accomplished" vocalist, so re-recording won't be ALL that bad, even tho that's not what i would like to be doing at this stage of my project, but i'll live.

I'm gonna' hip him and his little "crew" to the BBS!!! Maybe they can learn somethin'!

[Dogman]

You can try and mix the Mp3's, but there could be some substantial loss. Won't hurt to try, but at least now you hopefully won't forget this, and lose files again. I've done the same, as far as saving something only as an MP3, and tehn wanting to have the original back.
Hopefully you won't have any difficulty re-tracking the parts. Good luck, man.
Ed

[LordSire]

What's funny, they dont sound like they're suffering much quality loss. Their "hot" and clear. But i think im gonna' go back, redo them, and compare the two just to "see". And believe me, I won't make this mistake again! And I won't listen to my cousin!

Good Lookin'-

[noisewreck]

When you listen to them individually, by themselves, you may think they sound fine. However, when you compare them with the original uncompressed .wav or .aiff, you'll definitely hear the difference. If you can't, then you're in the wrong field

[LordSire]

I see what you're saying. But you have to understand, I've never compared the "two" in contrast to one another. I've never understood until recently joining this site, about the actuality of codecs and exactly what do they, and many other aspects, dealing with what may lead to sound degradation, meant to the digital domain.

I'll see what i can do to make sure im not in the wrong field. Thanx.
If you (anyone) has any more knowledge/opinions of this subject, "have at it."
(I'm listening)

[karyoker]

Nothing will compare to recording wav's but something you might try is this. With the mp3 track bounced down to stereo arm a new track...I then rerecord through a system with a dfx12 and external fx, then through a bbe362 then an aphex 204...Monitor the vocals with cans and monitors both..

It wont bring back all but its better than the mp3.....

[LordSire]

Originally Posted by karyoker

Nothing will compare to recording wav's but something you might try is this. With the mp3 track bounced down to stereo arm a new track...I then rerecord through a system with a dfx12 and external fx, then through a bbe362 then an aphex 204...Monitor the vocals with cans and monitors both..

It wont bring back all but its better than the mp3.....

Now, all I have to do, Karyoker, is find a translator adept at interpreting that "Japanese Ghetto Slang" you just wrote back there! LMAO

You lost me right after "something you might try is this."

[karyoker]

Sorry... All I was suggesting was convert the mp3 vocal to stereo Then play back through an external system using analogue fx and audio processors, and record again back into your software... It then can be exported as a wav better than the mp3 original....