Question:Mic Positions and Stuff

[tpresz]

Hi,
This is kind of related to metalhead28's post earlier:
Being somewhat new to recording, I have never really been able to get a 'big' guitar sound. Haven't had much time to experiment either (although I think I will try some of metalhead28's methods).

I'm guessing by other posts I've read that you don't want to place mics at different distances from the speaker? In other words: one 4" away and the other 3' away?
Please forgive the question, I'm sure it's painfully obvious to most of you.

I'm kind of looking for a little theory behind the explaination -not too deep though.

My thought was to split the guitar signal. One to a POD the other to my MESA Triple Rec driving a MESA 4x12 and Marshall 2x12. Use two mics, one for each cab. Route the POD straight to the PC. A total of 3 tracks.

I have no experience with phase correction, so I may need help with that later -sounds like you can just zoom and align the signals graphically?

[metalhead28]

Where you place the mic is largely dependant on the type of sound you're after. Some people prefer a dynamic close mic and a condenser at a distance. There is nothing wrong with having mics at different distances but once you do that you've got much worse phase problems to deal with.
The problem is, you can't put two different mics at two different distances "perfectly" in phase with each other. Somewhere in the frequency spectrum there is going to be something funny going on. From my experience, moving the waveform in an editor just changes the sound, it doesn't really eliminate phase problems. It could just make it worse. Sometimes the slight phase mismatch between two mics can be what you like about the sound though, so if it sounds good it is good. I think the best way to get two mics set up at different distances is to get one sounding good and then place the other one with careful trial and error. Always checking that when adding the second mic's signal to the mix that things get louder and fuller instead of thinner and weaker. I say don't rely on nudging the audio around afterwards.
You've also got the 3 to 1 rule for distances which I find to be rather unhelpful for mic'ing an amplifier.

[Kasey]

I've found that getting big guitar sounds is most easily acheived simply by recording the guitar part twice and hard panning them. Also, a lot of people seem to think that if they add a bunch of bass to the guitars they will sound bigger. Actually this has an almost reverse effect. All this will do is muddy the sound up and thus the guitars will loose their power. I hardly ever boost anything below 250Hz on electric guitars. Allow the bass to take care of those frequencies, and you'll find that the bass will actually help your guitars sound bigger.

[metalhead28]

Originally Posted by Kasey

I hardly ever boost anything below 250Hz on electric guitars.

Well, for what it's worth, I hardly ever boost anything above 250 hz either. There's no good reason not to get what you want out of the amp and forget about EQ afterwards. Trust me, it will sound better. The only EQ I routinely do is a high pass at about 80 hz just because you don't need anything down there.

[Vullkunnraven]

What do you guys think about Reamping to eliminate the possibility of phase problems?

What if someone were to do the following:

*Set up a DI box and run your 'thru out' to the amp and the 'direct out' into your DAW (playing thru the amp while direct record will give you the right feel)

*Record all of your heavy or clean parts

*Reverse the DI to go back into your amp and dial up your tone

*Use one mic, lets say a close dynamic like a '57 and record the reamped part

*Now keep your amp tone the same, but now set up a large diaphram condensor for the room/ambient tone and reamp the same part to record to again

*Line up the DI, the '57, and the room mic's waveforms to compensate for any delay

Now question...
1.) would this process eliminate potential phase issues since two mics aren't recording at the same time? Or
2.)would this have no difference in the end result at all (still phase problems) since two mics were used nontheless?

[Chris.]

You should read this thread:

http://marsh.prosoundweb.com/index.php/mv/msg/287/0//

It's insanely long, but it's pretty much everything you'll need to know, and hilarious to boot. A VERY good read.

[metalhead28]

Originally Posted by Vullkunnraven

Now question...
1.) would this process eliminate potential phase issues since two mics aren't recording at the same time? Or
2.)would this have no difference in the end result at all (still phase problems) since two mics were used nontheless?

No difference.
Honestly, I think that might even make it harder. I'd rather record the two mics at the same time so I could listen to both of them when I placed them.

I also agree that Slipperman's thread is a good one to read. Here's a link to a nice consolidated posting of it:

http://www.badmuckingfastard.com/sound/slipperman.html

It doesn't deal at all with using multiple mics, but as far as generally getting something good out of a guitar recording it's priceless.

[Kasey]

Originally Posted by metalhead28

Well, for what it's worth, I hardly ever boost anything above 250 hz either. There's no good reason not to get what you want out of the amp and forget about EQ afterwards. Trust me, it will sound better. The only EQ I routinely do is a high pass at about 80 hz just because you don't need anything down there.

true, and yes, i usually high pass at 80Hz as well.