drumagog sounding like a machine??

[bfoundation81]

im new to drumagog but im using mic's to mic up drums and my room sucks so i wana use drumagog to replace kick snare and maybe more well see.....

but when i replace kick and snare it sounds like a machine and not real. Is there anything i can do to help not make the sound so fake. I have the andy sneap samples and some others but like i said im new and i have heard some great recordings done with drumagog what am i missing???

[Ford Van]

You need to use random multi samples.

[xfinsterx]

Ive never used Drumagog but on soundreplacer you can set the dynamics to follow that off the audio that triggers the samples.

Also, reverb and compressed overheads can help gel the sounds a bit more.

The truly best way to trigger IMO is to use a sample of the drum thats being replaced.

Before i finish tracking a kit i always grab individual drum samples for later use. The reason this is important is because that way your triggers will match whats in the overheads.

-Finster

[bfoundation81]

well i have samples from andy sneap and i dont think i can multi sample with them im not sure. I cut out one kick and one snare and i replaced origional kick and snare from track. When i do this on a snare fill it sounds like a fuckin machine gun like a drum machine or rap song not like rock/metal. I dont know how exactly the multi samples would help this or how to get multisaples from my wav files i have. (thought multisamples are for like a snare side hit then to a regular snare stuff like that)

wouldnt you need like the same drum hit from light to heavy and all in seprate files, then load them all in and multisample?

i have heard alot of good work with drumagog but feel like im missing something i have read the whole manual and am still kinda lost PLEASE HELP ME.

[Ford Van]

Chris, are you saying that Sound Replacer can't use multiple samples, and randomize them? It only will load one sample, and only adjust's that one samples volume based on the original audio's volume?

In Drumagog, not only for each dynamic level can you have more than one sample, but you can set up a range of dynamic levels that will trigger different groups of samples. So, not only will a lower volume hit trigger a different sample than a higher volume hit, but within those volume ranges, you can have multiple hits and Drumagog won't play the same one twice in a row (randomize).

This is VERY effective at removing the "drum machine" effect.

I downloaded some Andy Sneap samples from somewhere, and I know that it at least had 4 or 5 hits per tom and snare, and a few different kick drum samples. The one's that I downloaded needed to be sliced up to work.

I had no problem learning how to use Drumagog from reading the manual. I am sure you won't either!

[Farview]

You need to cut out more than one sample of each. You are triggering the same sample over and over again, that is what makes it sound like a machine. Try some of the samples on the Drumagog site, they are all multi samples.

Try this http://www.farviewrecording.com/spec...udwigKick1.gog

And this www.farviewrecording.com/special/CbrssFF8.gog

With the snare gog, don't forget to use the positional knob, there are 4 different snare sounds in that gog.

[bfoundation81]

ok well i will take andy's samples and slice all into like 5 parts (i think there is like 5 hits per drum) and then i need to setup in drumagog so difrent hit volumes set off diffrent drums. And is this all done by threshold setings?

Any more info is nice i hate the manual i need drumagog for dummies dvd or something ... and if i do this my drums will actually sound like a drum set again not a drum machine from 1980 tryin to be tough

[Ford Van]

I personally don't feel that 5 samples are enough. I use up to 30 samples on a snare, and at least 12 per tom!

Also, I am not sure that those samples will be exactly what you need to make your drum tracks rock! Each production has different things that will work for it.

Try those samples out, but, be aware that they might not be the best drum sounds for your song. That is why there is variety in life!

[Farview]

I was just trying to show him what a multisampled gog will do. There must be 40 or 50 gogs on the Drumagog site, something must be close.

The first taste is always free, after that....

[Ford Van]

Farview, the comment was more directed at him. He seems fairly bent on those Andy Sneap samples. While they are good sounding samples, I probably wouldn't use them just because they aren't extensive enough.

It is tough to find samples that "tonally" fit your production. That is why having a variety of samples is so important.

[bfoundation81]

well i have heard good things done with andy's samples and wondering why i cant seem to achive the same results. I guess i will try and cut them up and use the 5 samples for each drum. I just feel these samples fit best with what im trying to achive. I know it can be done i have heard alot of songs with his samples on them and they kill.......
Man is that dummies for drumagog dvd coming out soon or what

[Farview]

Originally Posted by bfoundation81

Man is that dummies for drumagog dvd coming out soon or what

I run the local chapter of Dummies for Drumagog, we meet on Tuesdays. Seriously, if you are having a problem using Drumagog, let me know. I can help.

[xfinsterx]

Originally Posted by Ford Van

Chris, are you saying that Sound Replacer can't use multiple samples, and randomize them? It only will load one sample, and only adjust's that one samples volume based on the original audio's volume?

http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/shop_i...6af03125fd.jpg
Theres a pic of the GUI.
You get threee samples to set at different dynamic levels, along side setting it to the tracks dynamics. Works good for me. Youll have to show me how the mega-multisample-radomizer thing works......i assume thats exclusive to drumagog? What a shame i dont have that function....

[metalhead28]

Well, those samples you're talking about don't have nearly enough variations of hits to make for a very realistic snare. The only thing I found useable out of those Sneap samples were the kick drums, and most people pretty much want them to all sound the same anyway. You need several different samples to make the snare sound real. Get some samples from the Drumagog website. There are alot of useable ones there free for registered users.
This reminds me. I made some gogs out of Drumkit From Hell Superior samples. I need to bring those to work with me tomorrow so I can post them for ya.

[Farview]

Originally Posted by xfinsterx

http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/shop_i...6af03125fd.jpg
Theres a pic of the GUI.
You get threee samples to set at different dynamic levels, along side setting it to the tracks dynamics. Works good for me. Youll have to show me how the mega-multisample-radomizer thing works......i assume thats exclusive to drumagog? What a shame i dont have that function....

The multi sample thing works like this:
you have multiple velocity layers set to trigger at specific volume ranges,

All of the layers have a few samples (all different hits) that would correspond with the volume of the hit. (for snare, buzzy light hits for low velocity and big hard hits for high velocity)
The program reads the trigger signal, picks a sample (at random) from the appropriate velocity layer, and matches the volume of the sample to the triggering hit.

That's it.

[TornadoTed]

I use Drumagog quite a lot but always use samples taken from the kit I'm recording. I basically use it as the ultimate noise gate. I have tried in the past to use other samples but it never sounds right to me and never seem to gel with the overheads.

[Farview]

Originally Posted by TornadoTed

I use Drumagog quite a lot but always use samples taken from the kit I'm recording. I basically use it as the ultimate noise gate. I have tried in the past to use other samples but it never sounds right to me and never seem to gel with the overheads.

Turn the overheads down or use a low cut filter. If you were trying to replace crappy sounds, you would have to do that anyway.

[Ford Van]

I agree. Few people actually get a good overhead sound anyway. When I get tracks from people where the overheads aren't all that great, I high pass filter them anywhere from 500Hz-2Khz! Depends on the production.

[TornadoTed]

Originally Posted by Farview

Turn the overheads down or use a low cut filter. If you were trying to replace crappy sounds, you would have to do that anyway.

Yes this works but it's not how I like to work. We have a lovely sounding room here and I try to work from the overhead sound primarily with the spot mics just filling in. I spend a lot of time getting the overheads right and use my Schoeps mics and Focusrite Red Pre Amps to get the best sound I can. I always tune the drums before every session and spend the time damping them right. I have found when filtering a lot of the overheads out and replacing drums with samples it just doesn't have the glue. Drumagog'ing the spot mics just sounds more natural to me than using gates so that's what I use it for.