4 track recording

[Magnum Pi]

A question for those of us without the money for a digital recorder:

Does anyone have any tips or tricks for getting the best possible sound with a 4 track recorder? Keep in mind that the device we have only allows 2 tracks to be recorded at a time. Also at our disposal are two line mixers, an Alesis compressor/limiter/gate, an Alesis microverb and a BBE 482. We will be mixing down to a Pioneer cd burner. Any input will be appreciated.

[bvaleria]

Yup...

First one - read the FAQs at this site! After that, you can ask more specific questions as you come up with them...



Bruce Valeriani
Blue Bear Sound

[MGS]

Magnum,

The most useful piece of info that we need is what you are planning to record.

Mark

[The Green Hornet]

Yo Magnum of Magnificence I:]

I started way back with four track,

I got many clicks and a couple of clacks,

It took a great time to find the knobs,

that would make good vocals instead of sobs....

I never was a good poet in my English undergraduate work.

First: you need a good mic pre amp to direct not only vocals but guitar solos, etc.

Next: you need a good mic to capture the vocals and other mics for other stuff.

Next: you need an infinite amount of patience and enough time to view all of the advice on this channel regarding your question.

Next: You need some luck and some good cables.

Next: You need to learn that over-tweaking the EQ is not what to do: [more poetry]

Next: You need good tape; never use 90 minute tapes.

Next: you need something that eliminates hum on your AC/DC lines. Or, you need a relative who is an electrician.

There are probably more "nexts," but, enough is enough is enough.

Keep recording and experimenting.

Green Hornet PS: You need a good FX box; the Lexicon 100 is down to less than 200 pezutos and it is a very good FX box.

[Magnum Pi]

I assume by "what you plan to record" you are referring to the instrumentation: 5 piece drum kit with a considerable amount of brass, bass, guitar, vocals...possibles: keyboard, additional guitar, backing vocals. Also, I didn't specify what type of 4 track we were using: Fostex X-55.

Again, any info will be appreciated.

[regebro]

I've found it hard to find anything else than 90-minute tapes. They have worked excellently for me...
Is there actually any difference? Don't they just have less tape on the shorter tapes nowadays?

[The Green Hornet]

Yo Brother of Regge:

To my knowledge, it was recommended that 8 track tape recorders use only 60 minute tapes. 90 minute tapes are thinner, I think, and more prone to stretch, hence warbling sound.

I don't know what you are using 90 minute tapes for or for what box you are putting them in. You can use, for sure, a 90 minute tape to mix down your productions; however, if using a tape format to record, except, of course, for ADAT, 60 minute cassettes are usually required in the instruction manuals;;;;;one of the few things those people could write that was very CLEARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.

I am using all of my old tapes left over from my 488 Tasacam deck for mixing down from my Yam MD-8; so, I use the 60's or 90's and I have a gaggle of 20 minutes tapes to use for putting stuff on for friends, clients, auditions, etc.

Keep your tape deck de-magnetized...........or the flying saucers will come for you.

Green Hornet PS Do you use and DAT to mix down to? If so, how is it? Could I mix to a DAT from my MD-8 (I think so) and would the results be better? Thanks for you input.

Benmocini@aol.com

GH

[El Barto]

My Tascam 688 says use C90 tapes at the most, nothing higher. And that's what I use. I also have 60 minute tapes that I'll prolly end up sticking with.

[MGS]

I have a Yamaha MT4-X and only use 60 min tapes. I found stretch occuring with 90 min tapes. I use Quantegy 472 Professional Studio Series cassettes and they're great but you can't get them everywhere.

Magnum,

Considering how many sources you plan to record, you are either going to have to do alot of bouncing or get yourself a recorder that will do 4 or 8 tracks simultaneously. Are you able to upgrade?

Mark

[Magnum Pi]

MGS:

We've been looking into a few upgrade possibilities. However, at least for the time being, I seriously doubt we will be able to afford anything. A friend of ours has an ADAT with an 8 channel board, there's a possibility that he will let us use it. But, more than likely, we're stuck with what we have.

[kristian]

which 4 track is it? is it one of the only 2 simultaneous porta studios that tascam makes?

[Magnum Pi]

It's actually a Foxtex and no, it doens't allow 4 track simultanious recording.

[mojovoodoo]

hey magnum!it is so very possible to geat a wonderful sound with a 4-track,even limited to 2 tracks at a time.i used to think that 4 tracks were plenty on cassette,i got spoiled by digital 8-track,but the best recordings have been abnd still can be made with 4-tracks.the important aspects are the style of music,the live performance factor,and the type of sound you are trying to convey.if this is a full band that is well rehearsed, in the pocket,and you wanna capture the performance,i see that with the gear you got would be more than adequate.however,if this is limited to a few musicians playing more than one instruments on one song,then,you got bouncing tracks,wich certainly can work,it's just a matter of deciding which instruments you wanna commit to the same track.a large percentage of my recording experience is me playing all the instruments ,thus bouncing 2 tracks to 1,and that is all dependent on what goes i=on with the song,like if the bass and the electric are very sparse and easy to hear them together (being able to distinguish them apart)then,i have them share tracks.but,alas,i don't know what style music,what sound you want ,if you plan on overdubbing,so forth.i was in a band with the similar instrumentation,guitar,piano,bass(electric/and upright)drums,2 tenor saxes ,and one trumpet.our songs went from anywhere to be-bop,blues,reggae,tango,to rock and roll.we liked to sub mix the drumsand have the rhythm section intwo tracks stereo(more of an overall live mic'ed situation)but we also seperated tracks and did clean tracks with it all seperated before we bounced them together.then we did the horns all together with two mics,one track(these were usually specific horn lines they played together live anyway)then we had the final track for lead vocals and a solo sharing the track,(they rarely played at the same time).the horns even sang,or yelled backups,but they of course weren't playing horns at the same time,so backups were on the horn track.the levels were consistent to the live dynamics,so we didn't have to ride the faders at mixdown,it was a nice easy mix once we knew where we were.plus ,you got those effects units to add to the production,which could certainly add some punch to tracks that are lacking,or just beef up the drums,or whatever.but,you know what?i have no clue to what music you plan on doing,or what at all anything,so what i just said,could have no bearing,could be so useless,out of context with you,oh well.just a thought.you know that there have been some great albums put out from cassette 4 track right?you heard ween,yeah?most their albums are done on cassette 4-track,there was this whole scene where everybody wanted to be lo-fi as possible and put it out on cd.but,again ,i don't know what you wanna do with it,how far you wanna take it,and so on.good luck,and i hope i said something of meaning

[regebro]

Magnum, with your instrumentation and that Fostex I would try to get the whole band playing together with a good acoustic sound. That means you have to be in a location that sounds OK acoustically, i.e. a rather dead room.
When everything sounds fine acoustically you can record everything in stereo to two tracks. Either just with two mics, or with several mics placed around the room, and maybe some instruments (like bass) directly to the mixer. depending on how many mics youhave and if you have an external mixer.

Record the whole band EXCEPT VOCALS like this. Then record the lead vocals on one of the remaining tracks, and the background vocals on the others. Mix, and be happy!

This is not an easy way to record, since you need everything to sound right at one time. But its the best way when you have so many instruments on so few tracks... With the X-55 you could also do some bouncing without getting excessive noise, but for bouncing to be meaningful on an 4-track, you basically have to junk stereo and do all in mono, which is fine if you want that.

[Magnum Pi]

I just wanted to thank everyone for the replies...I'm learning quite a bit.

p.s. Tony Cho's song "I Will Lift You High" is really good. Hey Tony...is that really a 4 track recording??????

[jet-rocker]

Both songs that I've posted have been 4-tracked too. You can get killer sounds out of four-tracks. It just takes a lot of patience.

Heavy guitar rock/punk ruck is hard to get a tight heavy guitar sound because you don't really have enough tracks to layer, but it can be done.

Drums are rough too, especially without a premixer.

I've had more success with my eclectic rock songs than with my full blown Dead Kennedeys/Guitar Wolf Style punk band.

Good Luck.
-Jett Rocker