New to Sonar 4 Producers Edition.

[infamousrobby]

Well just to let you guys know, I'm a very broke college student trying to put a demo album together. The only program that I use is Sonar 4 Producers Edition. The only Problem I seem to have is I can't figure out how to get rich sounding vocals with the program? I'm not shure how to compress or eq the tracks to get the right sound. I have read alot of articles about this, and most producers that write the article use a harmonizer rack to give thickness and a double take effect to hit the sweet spot. I have all the Waves Processors, example the Waves Diamond Pack. I would greatly appreciate any help, tips anyone could give me to Help me get the sweet sound in my recordings. Thank you.

[DavidK]

What mics are you using? Which preamp> Whats your recording environment like?

I record in my living room, worst room known to man. I am finding that whatever I do to compensate doesnt make up for the fact that it sounds bad in my living room!

Sure you can do a bunch of tricks, but first it has to be a decent recording to begin with. What is your setup?

[Myriad_Rocker]

Sonar 4 Producer and the Waves Diamond bundle? And you're a poor college student? Wow.



As stated above, the sound of the room plays a huge part in how anything will sound when mic'ed up. There are a lot of "tricks" for vocals. Anything from doubling the track, to harmonizing, to compressing the hell out of it. Let's also not forget the most important part...a good singer. What's the mic? What's the pre? These will play a big role as well.

If I were going to rank it all on an importance scale, it would go...

1. The Vocalist
2. The Room
3. The pre
4. The mic
5. What you do with it after it's tracked

[infamousrobby]

Okay, well my mic is a Behringer B-1, and my Pre-amp is aTube Pac. The Preamp has a compressor built in. It has a Gain, Threshold, and an Output turn nobs for Pos and neg db. It also has a 1 slop, 1 speed, and 1 phase button. I have the Mic run to the Preamp and then to my Sound Blaster Audigy Interface Mic jack in the front of the CPU. Recording room set up, well I record in my bedroom. It seems to be okay, but I don't know anything about recording! I have most of my clothes hung on my walls for absorbing noise and my floor consist of a tile like material. So to recap I have:

1. Recording set up in my bedroom
2. A Tube Pac pre-amp
3. A Behringer B-1 Mic
4. A Sound Blaster Audigy Sound Card

Also, I am totally broke! Students get great deals on software!!! Yea!! As far as vocals. I'm pretty good, but need some work. I never record anything that is not ready to be recorded. Its a wast of time If I can't hit a note or have to go over and over again to get it down. But Like I said I'm not a pro. Thanks much for the help.

[dachay2tnr]

You've already been given some good advice. If it doesn't sound good when you record it, there's not much that's going to help it afterward.

That said, Reverb, Delay, Chorus and Compression can all help a vocal. Not necessarily all of them at once, it is going to depend on the vocalist, the mix, and the type of music as to what sounds good.

Keep trying. Experience will help immensely.

BTW, you said you are plugging into the mic jack of your soundblaster. Was that a mistake? You should be plugging into the Line In jack.

[infamousrobby]

Well when I do record I get really good sound. Its full and has a warmth to it. But, I'm trying to get that CD quality "Sound". I think one of my problems is that I don't really know what to do with the vocals to take them to the next sound level. I've read that a producer should record in mono because it keeps the track in the middle of the song. This, thus far, has proven to be benificial. Reason being is that I'm not familiar with processing vocals in any way! I tend to record the verse, one and two, and the hook in one bracket. Then I double the hook and spots that need alittle puch to them, kinda like a reply to a phrase or verse. Oh, the type of music I work in would be a R&B/Pop mix. I sometimes have a person that raps on the tracks. I let my friends come in and record songs also. The styles range from Christian pop/rap to R&B. Wow, what else? Um, I guess maybe I don't really understand what EQ's and Compressors functions are. I know by ready that people say to do this and that; but when it comes to getting rid of bleeding from headphones and taking frequences that would muffle the sound. For example taking out stuff that we can't hear by EQ or a Compressor. I have problems just doing this! I try to Compress and EQ without an idea of what the heck the outcome "should be"!! I've read that keeping the vocalist about a foot back while singing at a slight angle away from the mic will have a good sound. By good sound I mean the recording not being bassy. I would never let a vocalist stand an inch or so close to the mic. But I could be very, very wrong! Well my main question would be; what type of EQ and Compressor should I apply. Are there anymore tips that I could apply and how the heck did you guys get so dang knowledgable! You Rock, Thanks for your time and Tips.

[DavidK]

I've read that a producer should record in mono because it keeps the track in the middle of the song.

Not quite sure what you mean. Certainly the vocal will be in mono, the panning keeps it in the middle ( or left or right...)

But I could be very, very wrong! Well my main question would be; what type of EQ and Compressor should I apply.

The type that sounds good Since you got the Waves, experiment. Go through EVERY setting and see what they sound like. There is no formula, each voice needs a different setting.

For reverb, one mistake I was making is using way too much, a little goes a long way. Think of all effects as fine-tuning; the original has to sound close to how you want it, then reverb/eq sweetens things a tad.

[infamousrobby]

Well First I have to say all your comments/reply's helped me out so much. I opened up a song and messed around with the comp/Exciter. WOW, I totally have a much nicer feel to the recording. I could never tell you guys how great you are! Thanks so much. This forum is the best thing since a loaf of bread!!

[DavidK]

Heres another tip:

In Waves, there are lots of reverb options. In mine ( gold), there is a reverb called "Studio A". For me, thats the best sounding one. Use it sparingly and you will probably get a nice sound.

Some of the eq settings are interesting: there is one called telephone that will make it sound like a cheezy a.m. radio. I am doing a tune now where I start with that and gradually take it out while adding a "real" sound, and I get an incredible effect. If you want to hear it, PM me with you email and I will send you an mp3 of it.

[YungInJanear]

Hey, use the waves R-comp mono, its the most versatile in my opinion, tho it colors the sound(in a good way).

Here is an easy way to compress (change the settings while your vocals are playing)
1. set the ratio(in the middle) to around 4
2. set the threshold(on the left) to around the top of where your vocals peak out,(they should go a few db over the threshold u set)
3. Turn up the make up gain(right side) to match approximately the amount your track is being compressed.(look in the middle of the R-comp where the threshold is set to see how much your gain is being reduced)

That would be the way I learned how to use that compressor. Use your ears and learn what everything does. For more information, read the waves manuals, they pretty much teach u how compressors in general work.

[infamousrobby]

Wow, With all the tips I've managed to go from ok tracks to dang good. Thanks to all you guys, I can't stress how great you guys are. Plus Yungejeneir, Thanks big time for the tip on the compressor. Its really help bring a nice sound and keep the life in the track, Thanks.

[Yareek]

Also, try out the Digital Fish BLOCKFISH compressor. It's a free plugin and I use it all the time. It adds a bit more color and excitement than the RComp, which is my go-to compressor for transparency.

Like everyone said, you really have to experiment. If I were in your shoes, I'd concentrate on getting good levels out of the mic and pre. I'd use maybe just a little compression (low ratio, maybe 1.25:1 or there abouts) and a lower threshold IF the compressor adds a fuller sound. With good singing technique, you should have a pretty good take. Sweep around with parametric EQ on the track with a Q around 2 or so. Boost 6 - 9 dB and move all the way from 20 Hz to 20 kHz. Take notes as to what you hear, and what you might like to cut or boost. Do the same thing except cutting 6 - 9 dB. What helps the sound?

Search around for tips on compression; there's tons of them.

I like the Sonitus reverb a lot. It's easier to dial in a good sound than the Rverb or TrueVerb. It also doesn't kill CPU resources like the Timeworks stuff. I like the reverb to be just barely noticeable. Sometimes I'll compress it after the reverb to mesh the sound a bit; sometimes it's after the compressor. The really neat thing about Sonar is that it's flexible that way.

Play around; you should be able to get a good sound. I don't like that microphone, but if you can get a good sound out of it, imagine what you can do with a better one. I find that whenever I feel the need to upgrade, I spend some time with my mixes and tracking, and I realize that it's me who needs improvement, not my gear.

[infamousrobby]

Great insight! Very true to your statement Sonar is great. I'm gonna try those tips today. If you want you could check out my profile at
myspace.com/robbyrosariomusic to have an idea of what type of quality I'm getting out of my equipment. I would love to hear what anyone has to say on the recording teq. or any other critisisms! Thanks Guys.