Auralex for Corner Recording

[ThaArtist]

Ok I know I posted about this room so many times... I think I got everything figured out except the corner where I'm recording.

It's a 11'x10' x 8' room which i'll be mixing and recording in. I got a corner free that I can record in and I would like to put some auralex studio foam up. There wil be auralex bass trap cubes and that triangular basstrap studio foam they havein the corners plus im building some 703 panels.

What kind of aurlex studio foam should i use for the recording corner? Plus I have the aurlaex expanders kit already so that should also help some.

Links would help.

Thanks a lot!

Joseph

[ThaArtist]

This is what I'm talking about...

[guitarboi89]

in no expert but i think people will tell you that you shouldnt record in the corner of the room because there is a lot of bass. You are probably better off treating the whole room and then just moving your mic into the centre(ish) when your recording. Also you have the added benefit that your mixes will translate better

[ThaArtist]

Ya think so? Can anyone else confirm that? So then maybe I should just put a bass trap in the corner and then bring out the mic only when recording and just put it in the center of the room.

What would be best?

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Ya think so? Can anyone else confirm that?

Yes. Worst place you can put a mic. Listen in a headphone, while somebody talks into the mic in that position, and then slowly moves out of the corner. What do you hear? Its called COMB FILTERING. Treatment in the corner will help, but room modes terminate in the corner. The treatment does NOTHING for the direct sound, but the modal occilations are STILL there, cause the !/4 wavelengths are much longer than the treatment is thick. Thats why resistance absorbers have little effect on modal wavelenths, which are LOW FREQUENCY. However, here is my disclaimer. I"M NO EXPERT.

[knightfly]

Also, dead center of the room is ANOTHER of the worst spots to put either a mic OR an instrument. Check out this link for a starter course -

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2441

Although that is aimed primarily at speaker placement, it applies to either sound source or mic... Steve

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Doggone Steve, you must be free ........or at least reasonable TWO in one day...wow, thats a record lately. Now I know you did some kind of "honeydo" for the Mrs that she couldn't refuse giving you a vacation.

[Innovations]

The rule of thumb that I had been told is that the third point of the room in both directions was generally the best place to start. Was that good advice?

[ThaArtist]

Well I guess I'm never gonna get that good of recordings until I can dedicate a seperate room for recording vocals huh?

Well dealing with what I have right now then I guess it sounds like the only option is recording in the back of the room near the center of the wall but a little bit off.

Theres not going to be any sound while recording of course, except the persons vocals... So I don't really understand how it effects recording that much. The sound is going right into the mic?

Whats the deal?

[Yareek]

I'd recommend against that Auralex foam around the microphone. That will actually make things worse.

The reason is that cardioid microphones pick up what's in front of them and generally a bit of what's behind them, but very little off to the sides. This is because there is an opening behind the capsule that works opposite the sound in the front and cancels most of the stuff to the sides. However, if you remove all the sound from the back, it will make the microphone act more like an omni microphone. These mics are very sensitive and will pick up a lot more sound from the sides.

FYI.

Also, what everyone's talking about with comb filtering is reflections off the walls mixing with the direct source. When the two sound waves combine, they will reinforce or destruct each other. This will happen at lots of different frequencies. Read that Ethan Winer article for more information.

[jonnyc]

Originally Posted by ThaArtist

Well I guess I'm never gonna get that good of recordings until I can dedicate a seperate room for recording vocals huh?

Well dealing with what I have right now then I guess it sounds like the only option is recording in the back of the room near the center of the wall but a little bit off.

Theres not going to be any sound while recording of course, except the persons vocals... So I don't really understand how it effects recording that much. The sound is going right into the mic?

Whats the deal?

Yareek touched on this a little. Yes your vocals go right into the mic, but the mic doesn't just shut off after your vocals come out of your mouth. The mic also picks up the reflections your vocals create from hitting the walls and bouncing back. So if you're stuck in a corner not only does the sound from your mouth get recorded but the sound also hits the walls and bounces back creating all kinds of problems. So no your mic doesn't just pick up your vocals it picks up the entire room including any "left over" vocals. Best thing to do is wear some headphones and walk around the room with your stand until you hear a sweet spot, you may not find one at first but experimenting will eventually get you into that spot. I'm currently going thru the same thing in a newly treated room, just takes time, remember this is art and science all rolled into one.

[ThaArtist]

thanks johnny yareek and everyone else..

So i couldnt just pad that whole corner and get "better" results then if nothing?



And the one I planned on using actually is the one on the left...Still not a good idea?

Ok so assuming the idea of a dead vocal booth for recording (I guess thats what you want, or it seems to be anyway from reading on here...) Couldn't you just build a box with auralex foam to entrap the microphone in an open room and obtain a similar sound? lol, that might sound stupid, I don't know... I'm trying to understand this sound concept stuff...

Maybe I should just get these since I don't have a booth, would that be SOOOO much more better??



I'm trying to figure out how to get good recordings in this room... I barely have shit but I've still already spent a nice ammount of money on what i do have so I want to get the best sound as possible...

And assuming I had this setup in this tiny room, that would probably drastically effect the way mixing was done right? So I would probably have to take it up and down everytime I record... WHich isn't the biggest deal but just so I know...

Anyone got any ideas or comments on what I said, please speak!

Thanks!

[ThaArtist]

comon i know you guys got some advice!

[frederic]

A seperate recording area for vocals is obviously ideal.

But you can record stuff in bedrooms, hallways, living rooms and so forth. I've done it as have many others, with reasonable results.

But like others have said, center of the room and corners is bad. Better to have their back closer to the wall than their face, and use a very tight cardiod pattern mic. I have a marshall mic which people make fun of, but it's very sensitive to about a foot around it. Any more distance than that and it's like the mic is "deaf". A feature that annoys many, but I happen to like. It allows non-perfect recording spaces to sound much better - less reflections and less machine noise.

Years ago I had to record a flute player at her home, and her central air conditioning vent noise kept coming into the recording.

So, I mic'd the air vent, and reversed the phase of the air vent mic, and messed with the EQ for several hours until I got most if it to "go away". Was an absolute pain in the ass. And with a small touch of noise gate on the flute mic, you couldn't hear the air noise.

Lots of ways to solve the problem, and like always, most of them are a lot of work. Took 4-5 hours to get the air vent mic and parametric EQ "close".

[ThaArtist]

frederic...

So tight cardoid pattern mic huh...

All I was under the impression that I should get a condensor mic, does that change with the "cardiod tight pattern" stuff...

Got any examples of mics like that in the $300-$500 range?

So pack to the wall is better huh....

Well my problem is... if you move out of a corner then your in the center of the room... its really quiet tricky recording in a small space plus not having a seperate booth for recording...



Still looking for options and answers to previously posted questions...

[frederic]

Originally Posted by ThaArtist

So tight cardoid pattern mic huh...

All I was under the impression that I should get a condensor mic, does that change with the "cardiod tight pattern" stuff...

Depends on the condenser. Some are very tight, meaning they only collect sound from near the mic, others are in my opinion too sensistive and collect loads of ambient noise. Great if you're recording vocals in a huge room with lots of natural substances (like wood) about, however it's my preference to record vocals, and acoustical instruments like flute, sax, and so forth, dead as possible for treatment later. You can add the "big room" sound by borrowing a church or auditorium, playing the track at one end, and micing various spots within the structure with sensitive mics. Or, use one of the 8 zillion digital reverb, delay, and other such boxes if you prefer. The latter is easier, the former sounds better.

Originally Posted by ThaArtist

Got any examples of mics like that in the $300-$500 range?

$600 ish would give you a Beyerdynamic M160. One of the rode condensors is fairly tight. I think I have one in the attic. I'll check tomorrow and see if I still have it, and what model number it is. I might have sold it earlier this past summer. AKG 3300 is also very tight and dirt cheap. Though it's not as refined as the brandname usually suggests.

Originally Posted by ThaArtist

So pack to the wall is better huh....

Right against it, no. Lets say your room is 5'x5'. Standing a foot to one side, and a foot towards the back wall, singing at a 10 degree angle is better than facing the corner, or singing dead center. Minor adjustments here, and experiment. Dispite perfect 5'x5' dimensions in this example, different walls reflect and absorb differently, as one wall might be denser, thicker, anchored better, a structural wall or a fake wall, or have more plaster on it, etc. All these things effect how the recording will come out.

Originally Posted by ThaArtist

Well my problem is... if you move out of a corner then your in the center of the room... its really quiet tricky recording in a small space plus not having a seperate booth for recording...

If your house has a walk in closet, run wires to that, even temporarily down the stairs and around, and give that a try. Densely packed clothing actually is an okay broadband absorber.

Originally Posted by ThaArtist

Still looking for options and answers to previously posted questions...

To your first post, I would recommend just using the rigid fiberglass and forgetting the acoustical foam. Foam tends to absorb higher frequencies but pass the lower frequencies, which results in more of a boomy sound. YOu can EQ some of that out but then you lose natural resonance that the singer, or instrument might have.

Another option is to have the singer not face the corner, but instead face you, and sing across the room. Turn off your audio monitors, record the singer dry, and use headphones to make sure the singer isn't clipping, and watch the VU meters. Then once the track(s) are laid down, you can chuck the headphones and use the monitors and the EQ to tweak it a little bit to get a better sound.

Another option is to build a 4'x8' open frame, like a picture frame, out of 1"x4" pine boards, nailing, screwing or stapling them together. Then cover one side with a dense cloth like burlap, then cover that with cotton fabric. Then stuff with rigid fiberglass, then cover the other side with cotton fabric. I've made these in the past with a friend for his studio - we made two, one behind the singer, and one in front of the singer and the microphone. Two such panels significantly reduced room artifacts if my pal used his headphones to record the singer dry. And because they are big and flat, he shoves them against the back wall when not in use. He has 9' ceilings, so a 4x8' panel is fine. If your ceilings are lower, make the panels shorter so they don't hit the ceiling.

[ThaArtist]

Thanks so much for your replys Frederic. I haven't had anyone directly address my questions in a while it seems... (always have to make a new thread with new questions for the most part)

Thanks everyone else too for your comments! They don't go unused. I print all this stuff up so I can read through them again so I can make a sound decision on what I'm trying to do with this room.

Ordered my Mackie 400f, should get it in a week.