Home studio, help needed

[pandamonk]

I'm not sure where to post this, if it's in the wrong place I'm sorry. Ok, I'm setting up a studio and i need help with equipment. I'll give a list of what I'm thinking at the moment:

Behringer MX9000
Behringer DDX3216
RME Fireface 800
M-Audio LX4 5.1 Surround
Custom built PC
4x BEHRINGER PX1000 ULTRAPATCH PRO

I know most of it is Behringer gear, but i have used/still use behringer gear and haven't had a problem, and for the price it suits me down to the ground. So if you're just going to bash behringer DONT POST!!
Ok, I want the DDX3216 because it's digital, i see benifits of having digital(flying faders etc). The only problem is it only has 12 XLR ins and I'm looking for about 24, also I've heard the preamps aren't great, so i thought why not get the MX9000 and use it for preamps. I don't really have any other reason for getting it, apart from that it looks great. But, I'm looking to start putting on gigs in my local area, so it could come in usefull for that. I'm looking to connect these to the computer through the RME fireface 800. The ADATs for the DDX3216, and the 8 jack ins for either the busses of the MX9000 or channels 17-24, with the others connecting to the line ins of the DDX3216(i will hav patchbays so swapping between will be easy). I'm looking to mix in 5.1 surround so the M-Audio LX4s will connect to the 6 outs of the DDX3216. Does this all seem like a good idea, or should i just stick to one or the other(mixers)? What about cutting out the DDX3216 and Fireface and getting something with 24i/os(like motu 24i/o) and just using the MX9000? Or doing that and getting a Behringer BCF2000, for flying faders etc? Please help

[pandamonk]

anybody? bump

[pandamonk]

bumpety bump bump bump

[Soundscaper]

Mabey I missed this but, are you setting this studio up for commercial use or for personal use only??

[pandamonk]

personal and commercial. There isn't many in the area, and the main one that most use is terrible. So if you're going to say anything bout having mostly behringer gear it don't matter, because it'll still be an improvement on the others. I also see nothing wrong with Behringer, and only want decent replies, no digs at behringer. Also I'm only 17, will be 18 when i have the money to buy these, so can't afford the "better" gear. I'm going to struggle anyway for the Behringer. I've thought about it, and would it be a good idea to get 2 DDX3216s? I have a few options, and just want to choose the best. What i need is 24 XLR ins/preamps, and at least 16 line/jack ins, (it's ok if they are on the same channels as the XLR, if you know what i mean). I will be using Sonar 5 producers edition and a custom built PC. I would also prefer to go digital, flying faders, saving snapshots, etc. But like Analogue as they are, in my opinion, a lot easier to use. This is why i chose both, but I've thought about it, and do i really need both?

[LemonTree]

Talking from years of experience, I'd wait and SAVE like crazy. Buy crap and you'll eventualy have to buy twice, so save yourself some future headaches and steer well away from the behringer crap.

[pandamonk]

Have you tried the equipment i mentioned? Have you had much experience with Behringer? All Behringer gear I have worked with does an adequate job. I'm not looking to have the best of the best. I really cannot afford it. I'm a full-time student, and I'm working for myself, tutoring drums. I will take me years to save up enough for all the expensive gear, when it should only take about 6months-a year for the Behringer gear, which i think will do the job. I have read a lot of people, like yourself, moaning about Behringer, and alot, if not most, of the time the person has had little or no experience with Behringer gear. I have also read a lot of good reviews from professionals about Behringer gear. I have discussed with my college lecturers about them, and it has a lot of "bang for the buck". Obviously it isn't the best of gear, but that is not what I'm needing. I've heard that Behringers past products have been terrible, but lately they have improved it drastically.

[LemonTree]

Originally Posted by pandamonk

Have you tried the equipment i mentioned? Have you had much experience with Behringer? All Behringer gear I have worked with does an adequate job. I'm not looking to have the best of the best. I really cannot afford it. I'm a full-time student, and I'm working for myself, tutoring drums. I will take me years to save up enough for all the expensive gear, when it should only take about 6months-a year for the Behringer gear, which i think will do the job. I have read a lot of people, like yourself, moaning about Behringer, and alot, if not most, of the time the person has had little or no experience with Behringer gear. I have also read a lot of good reviews from professionals about Behringer gear. I have discussed with my college lecturers about them, and it has a lot of "bang for the buck". Obviously it isn't the best of gear, but that is not what I'm needing. I've heard that Behringers past products have been terrible, but lately they have improved it drastically.

Click on my studio link and you'll see I have a few bits of Behringer kit in my rack, not to mention the countless other pieces I've worked with either live or in the studio over the years. Live you can get away with it cause the hissing and farting is usualy masked by the noise of the band but for studio work, IF you want that recording to stand up I'd avoid like the plague.

Sure it's almost christmas and everyone wants to be an AE these days, I mean we've got Microsoft on the bloody TV telling us how easy it is to do with windoze XP ffs! Behringer will gladly step in and supply you with all the equipment you need to get started. Just prepare for a few shattered dreams along the way as well as replacing most, if not ALL that gear further down the line when your ears start to grow.

If you wanted to get into formula 1 or NASCAR racing would you buy a Skoda or a Lada?

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

What i need is 24 XLR ins/preamps

Why? Do you plan on setting up 24 mics? Do you even have room to set up THREE mics at one time?....you know, ah...comb filtering and all that jazz... How bout gobos? How are you going to seperate the different instruments ?
How bout starting with a quality PRE AMP, ONE quality MIC, A quality set of monitors, and THEN......LEARN how to use those FIRST. 24 channels of mic inputs.....geezus.... if you don't know how to engineer with ONE channel, 24 isn't going to make it any better BTW, did you notice the name of this forum? This is the studio BUILDING forum...

I mean we've got Microsoft on the bloody TV telling us how easy it is to do with windoze XP ffs!

Don'tcha just love ole Bill. He'll make ya a star! . All ya need is XP, and you'll make a million...good grief.

[pandamonk]

Actually i do plan on setting up 24 mics occasionally, for live recording. I'm building a studio out of a shed, and a 3 brick thick bomb shelter. The bomb shelter has 2 small rooms. The larger will be a drum booth, with 12 mic ins(8mics for standard kits and more if someone brings a bigger kit). the smaller will be a vocal booth with 2 mic ins(maybe someone will want to sing and play accoustic guitar at the same time). The shed will house one live room(tiny by your standards, but as big i can afford/allow), with 10 mic ins, and the control room. I have experience in recording just a few channels with just a few mics, and now i'm moving up to this. Also i'm in a college course learning music technology where we have 2 control 24s and an 02r96. And yes i noticed the name of this forum, but like i said, i didn't know where else to put it. Seeing as i'm in here most i thought i'd ask here. Also, isn't equipment part of building, ie you build to suit the equipment you think you'll buy.

[pandamonk]

By the way, nice setup, and you're from Glasgow? cool. I'm from Prestwick. What would you suggest i get, remember I don't have huge sums of money to play with(none at the moment)? Will the patchbays be ok? What about the headphone amps? Ohh yeh never mentioned those, it's the Behringer HA8000 POWERPLAY PRO-8. Ohh and Behringer Headphones?

Originally Posted by LemonTree

If you wanted to get into formula 1 or NASCAR racing would you buy a Skoda or a Lada?

Well Skoda are building decent cars nowadays, lol.

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Actually i do plan on setting up 24 mics occasionally, for live recording.

Live WHAT?

[pandamonk]

large drums(say 10-12 mics), guitars(with a couple of mics on amps), bass(miked amp), vocals, i don't know what kind of clients i will get but i'm thinking that maybe some will need it. Maybe not a full 24 but maybe 18+. But it's best to be able to satisfy everyone, don't you think? I'm thinking of probably getting 2 DDX3216s. Now what would recommend for getting 4 ADAT or T-Dif i/os into a computer?

[LemonTree]

Originally Posted by pandamonk

remember I don't have huge sums of money to play with(none at the moment)?

and then....

Originally Posted by pandamonk

large drums(say 10-12 mics), guitars(with a couple of mics on amps), bass(miked amp), vocals, i don't know what kind of clients i will get but i'm thinking that maybe some will need it. Maybe not a full 24 but maybe 18+. But it's best to be able to satisfy everyone, don't you think? I'm thinking of probably getting 2 DDX3216s. Now what would recommend for getting 4 ADAT or T-Dif i/os into a computer?

well you should manage that just fine if you have a wallet to match your imagination. I love the bit about using a SHED for a live room......only in Preswick!

[LemonTree]

you know I'd LOVE to see a strictly Behringer studio, nothing else in there but Behringer gear. I bet the silence would be deafening

[pandamonk]

lol, yeah, i will be getting other things than Behringer, but they will make up most of my equipment. I know, only in prestwick, but you'll see ! It's a 14' x 8' shed and will be split into 2 rooms. It will have plasterboard on the inside, with 3.5" Ultratouch insulation all over, covered by material. On the outer of the shed i will have 200mm Knauf loft insulation and an outer shed(detached from the inner, with any gaps sealed with either wood sealer or Caulk). This will hopefully be ok insualtion and acoustics. It has a small walkway through to the anderson shelter, which has 3 bricks thick walls, and concrete floor and ceiling/roof, and it will have plasterboard on the inside, with acoutic foam and 3.5" ultratouch covered with material. Got the shed and walkway up, have the knauf insulation, and have the wood for the outer shed coming at the weekend(have all the cabling too). (See the attached plan)

[pandamonk]

Originally Posted by LemonTree

and then....



well you should manage that just fine if you have a wallet to match your imagination. I love the bit about using a SHED for a live room......only in Preswick!

My amagination? Yeh, well it is a bit over productive, lol. i was showing that as an example to rick of why i might need 24 xlr ins.

[LemonTree]

hey panda it's a pitty you have that knauff loft insulation. Travis Perkins in East Kilbride do the real deal Knauff Rocksilk RS45 rigid fiberglass. You get the same sound isolation from the 50mm stuff as you do from 200mm of the loft stuff....coulda saved yourself 6 inches on each wall, that's a full foot both ways across your rooms. Space is everything, and air conditioning....

[LemonTree]

Originally Posted by pandamonk

My amagination? Yeh, well it is a bit over productive, lol. i was showing that as an example to rick of why i might need 24 xlr ins.

In a room that small for drums I'd try to use as little mics as possible. I'd mic the kick, snare and have stereo overheads....so there's 4 XLRs you'll need

[pandamonk]

Originally Posted by LemonTree

hey panda it's a pitty you have that knauff loft insulation. Travis Perkins in East Kilbride do the real deal Knauff Rocksilk RS45 rigid fiberglass. You get the same sound isolation from the 50mm stuff as you do from 200mm of the loft stuff....coulda saved yourself 6 inches on each wall, that's a full foot both ways across your rooms. Space is everything, and air conditioning....

The 200mm stuff compresses easily and we're filling a 4" gap with it. It was really cheap, on special offer. It'd be that size anyway because we're building out the outside of the 14' x 8' shed that we got cheap. I'd rather close the the drums, with clip on mics as i want a lot of control over ther sound of the drums, as i am a drummer.

[wx3]

You have to worry about skill first. Then equipment.

A great AE can make a tape player and a sm57 sound good.

A poor AE couldn't make the best pro tools rig sound good if his life depended on it.

Unfortunately I tend to fall into the latter.

Before you invest all your money into this studio you better start off small and start tuning your skills.

Why buy behringer when you can buy used?

[pandamonk]

Originally Posted by wx3

You have to worry about skill first. Then equipment.

A great AE can make a tape player and a sm57 sound good.

A poor AE couldn't make the best pro tools rig sound good if his life depended on it.

Unfortunately I tend to fall into the latter.

Before you invest all your money into this studio you better start off small and start tuning your skills.

Why buy behringer when you can buy used?

With behringer gear i get what i want and i'm not just buying things that aren't greatly suited to me, because they are there. It very very rare to find any used studio gear here anyway. I have used cheaper equipment and got ok results, and am doing a college course on music tech to gain learn and gain experience. I see this as a step up from the cheaper gear i first used.

[wx3]

You need to re-think this drastically.

If you have a pile of crap, even if you add more crap to your pile, you still just have a pile of crap.

A drum kit mic'd with 12 cheap mics going though 12 cheap preamps isnt going to sound as good as the same kit carefully mic'd with 4 or so quality mics though quailty pre's.

You're saying that you simply don't have the money to afford the nicer gear, but if you get nice gear you really don't need as much of it.

[pandamonk]

I'm not going to mic the kit with 12 mics that often, i was just using that as an example of why i may need a 24 track mixer. I will mostly mic it with 8 mics. I'm thinking of getting the Samson 8KIT, are they any good? I've heard that preamps at this price range don't really matter too much, as they will be as bad as each other. It's only when you get up into the 1000s where there is a huge difference. And again, I'm not looking for the best of the best. I just wana be better than the local studio, which shouldn't be too difficult Also my mind is set on the DDX3216, and i know this is a bit ignorant of me, but I can't help it. I just feel that people on this forum don't give Behringer a chance. I know there are many who have a lot of experience with Behringer gear, but they are usually very experienced with most gear, and so have used the top of the range stuff, and so obviously Behringer will seem crap to them, and the herds of sheep just tag along(sorry i don't mean to offend, I'm just having a rant). I have read some good reviews of Behringer gear, and they all say it's obviously not the best, but for the price, they have some great gear. I've used/still use Behringer gear, and have been happy with it. If i buy it and a few years down the line realise that you guys were right, at least it aint huge sums of money I've lost, and I can sell it on. It's only the mixers that i will have to sell on, and they are only £500(with expansion card)each, and I could probs sell them on for at least £300 each.

[phillwildman]

Hi there Pandamonk,
'Hello, is there anyone in there'.
Sorry but I have to say you're not listening to any advice people are offering are you?
In any type of business it is best to start small and grow with your experience.
Get a bit of good gear first, then try getting some clients and then if you get a good enough rep then more work will naturally follow, leading to money to purchase some more good gear with.
I get the distinct impression that you may have fallen into the trap of desiring some fantastic peach of a studio, with countless channels and lots of patchbays etc, maybe because your college course is feeding you with all the jargon and talk of what you could do if only you had 'this and that'.
Everyone is trying to offer a little help, don't ignore the experience of others.
Slow down a little and be practical by slimming down your wishlist to a more affordable limit, 'limit the quantity but not the quality'.

And as for the insulation, don’t compress it, it kills the acoustic properties.
Rockwool is better than loft insulation, get some 100mm RS60 or something instead.
The outer skin of your building should be solid block (to stop sound escaping) , and the inner walls rockwool, plasterboard etc (to absorb sound).

(Try CCF or Keyline in the phone book)

All the best