simple splicing question

[antispatula]

Yeah, so I know it's used for cutting tape, but why? Editing? I don't know, can someone explain? Thanks a bunch!

[themaddog]

You can cut out a portion of a song, or even rearrange it by placing one part of a song in another section.

For instance, you could cut out a part of a song that isn't working, say a double chorus at the end. Or, by copying tape then splicing it you can repeat a section of a song. If it's done well, you usually can't tell. You would splice tape together so that you don't have to re-record the whole song over again, start to finish.

There's a fairly obvious tape splice on the Accept record Balls to the Wall, on the song "Losers and Winners" where they repeat the chorus at the end during a fade out.

-MD

[The Ghost of FM]

Frank Zappa was a MASTER at using the razor blade to splice together different takes of a song, including live and studio takes to assemble finished album tracks.

Sadly, at this point it's a dieing art.

The more general usage of splicing for music recording is to assemble tracks in a desired order with specific breaks of silence in-between tracks by use of leader tape to have a hiss free passage in-between songs.

Effective splicing would negate the need for a generational loss by making duplicate copies and losing quality with each bounce.

Radio and TV commercial work done on analog decks in the good old days would also be a massive user of the splicing method to edit dialog takes together to form a 30 second spot.

Now with the CUT and PASTE and COPY functionality of computers, it does away with the physical act of doing those tasks to a roll of tape.

Cheers!

[arjoll]

Originally Posted by The Ghost of FM

Radio and TV commercial work done on analog decks in the good old days would also be a massive user of the splicing method to edit dialog takes together to form a 30 second spot.

I remember spending 4 hours with a friend editing songs together on a Revox B77 to make a 90 second promo for a show we were doing on the local community station. Probably a good 20 splices. Fun and satisfying, but very, very time consuming!

(those old BBC "London Radio Service" programme tapes were great - 5" reels with as little as 3 minutes of tape on them)

[antispatula]

woah.....I had no idea thats what splicing could do.......COOL!

So how do you know exactly where to cut, and how do you use to connect two cut tapes?

[The Ghost of FM]

Originally Posted by antispatula

So how do you know exactly where to cut, and how do you use to connect two cut tapes?

You have to have a deck with an edit mode which allows the tape to be against the heads, with the lifter arms defeated so that when you hand "rock" or turn the reel, you can find the precise spot where the take starts or stops, mark it with a special pencil and then with a splicing block, which sets the angle of the cut point, you take your non-magnetized razor blade and cut the tape and discard the un-needed section of the tape.

Special splicing tape is used to join to cut points together. It is special because it's glue has far less tendency to ooze out onto your heads and guides although even these edit points must be re-taped from time to time when the adhesive in the tape breaks down and oozes or dries out, leaving the edit point unconnected.

Gloves should also be used when editing tape so as to keep the natural oils in your skin from getting onto and contaminating the tape which will cause drop-outs in many cases.

It's an acquired skill, to put it bluntly.

Cheers!

[noisewreck]

Originally Posted by The Ghost of FM

Sadly, at this point it's a dieing art.

Why sadly? Personally, I'm glad I don't have to waste my time splicing tape. I don't mean this as a flame, and hope I don't get flamed myself, but I really don't understand some of the nostalgia, it's kind of like a quantum physicist saying "Sadly, using a slide rule is a diing art"

(in Einstein voice) "Ven I came up wiz my seory of General Relativity, vi had no komputers! ..."

[peopleperson]

Virtually all of the really good electric era Miles Davis (69-74 approx) is jam packed with creative edits. Bitches Brew is loaded with em.

[The Ghost of FM]

Originally Posted by noisewreck

Why sadly? Personally, I'm glad I don't have to waste my time splicing tape. I don't mean this as a flame, and hope I don't get flamed myself, but I really don't understand some of the nostalgia, it's kind of like a quantum physicist saying "Sadly, using a slide rule is a diing art"

(in Einstein voice) "Ven I came up wiz my seory of General Relativity, vi had no komputers! ..."

What the "sadly" part was more in reference to was the artistic genius of the artists like Frank Zappa, who made use of tape splicing in such a way as to make it an art unto itself.

Digital editing is less messy and time consuming as a technology, I agree. But, sometimes making a task easier to do also takes away the magic and soul of it's results and cheapens the appreciation value because it can be done by anyone with or without a brain.

Cheers!

[antispatula]

^excactly. Isn't that half the reason we all love analog?

[peopleperson]

I agree. My first experiences multitracking involved an old cheap reel to reel machine and a shit Fostex four track. At some point as a teen I read how Tomorrow Never Knows was recorded with all the tape loops and the live mix down. That definately provided a spark and I spent the next couple of years cutting tape loops. I'd find sections of records and music in general that were in a solid key, and after making the actual loop, I'd record them down to the four track. I'd make the pitches match by using the pitch control on the four track. For mixdowns, I'd just have fun and mix between four or so minutes of loops in the same pitch, sometimes bouncing down and playing a guitar track over them. It's a great way to create really great sounding "beds" if you will.

Sure you could do the stuff with a DAW, but most DAW's don't typically have a real time PITCH CONTROL first of all, and absolutely none of them have that type of sound that you get. Being hunkered down on the floor in a room being surrounded by countless unlabled loops was about a million times more fun than doing it the easy way. I'm a firm believer that those limitations make for high creativity. I record and mix plenty of stuff these days on a PC, but when everything is that easy and at your disposal, sure it gets the job done quicker, but it's not even remotely as fun.

During the last fifty years of rock music, the technology has climbed to unbelievable heights, and mysteriously or predicably (your opinion) the music has gotten more boring with each passing year. At least that's how I see it. Whether or not the technology has anything to do with it is up to you. Personally, I think it has everything to do with it.

[Dr ZEE]

Originally Posted by The Ghost of FM

But, sometimes making a task easier to do also takes away the magic and soul of it's results and cheapens the appreciation value because it can be done by anyone with or without a brain.

Cheers!

Precisely!
I'd say, with today's advanced editing tools the process of "creative production" is rather try and pick than imagine and think - no excitement, no inspiration, no really reason for ...
********
On the day when cars will run without a driver there will be less travelers, because there will be less reasons going anywhare

...on the second thought - that may be a good thing .... hmmmmmm, especially if you kept your ol'chevy in the garage and it still running, of course if DRIVING your car is still legal -

**** Is it An Image of THE PAST or Is it An Image Of THE FUTURE?


/respects

[noisewreck]

Originally Posted by The Ghost of FM

But, sometimes making a task easier to do also takes away the magic and soul of it's results and cheapens the appreciation value because it can be done by anyone with or without a brain.

Originally Posted by Dr ZEE

Precisely!
I'd say, with today's advanced editing tools the process of "creative production" is rather try and pick than imagine and think - no excitement, no inspiration, no really reason for ...

I know where you're coming from, and I know this is the analog forum, and I disagree. I disagree for the same reasons that I disagree with arguments that sampled drums don't have a soul, and live performed drums are preferrable.

It depends on the music and the execusion. Listen to the music of Lamb, specially their "Fear of Four" album and you'll realise that live drums would be completely out of place and make the whole thing sound rather one dimentional and ordinary. Then there are the more experimental acts such as Fennez, Autechre and Amon Tobin. There is a lot to be said for these people's ability of electronic manipulation, editing and writing skills. Or Bjork's "Homogenic". Which reminds me of the odd juxtoposition of things like hurdy-gurdy and stethoscope, etc. combined with quite artful cutups of Matmos.

I don't think there is anything to be sad about. Time marches on. The old tricks get digested. New ones get developed. In any era there are the people that always push the envelope, and there are the drones that copy them.

[I wrote some examples, but decided to delete them so the post wouldn't be too long, and I don't wish to hurt people's feelings by citing several recent rather mainstream albums for copying (rather artlessly) of some of the advanced methods pioneered by cutting edge electronic artists.]