classical guitar strings

[LI Slim]

I play a Martin classical, 00016C (1970), for blues, folk and the like. So far my favorite strings are the D'Adarrio composites. Two questions:

Does anyone else have a heavy fave?

Martin classical guitar strings were once recommended to me, but as yet I haven't found anyone who sells them. Do they really exist? Do they exist on some other plane? Can anyone solve this mystery?

[Tom Hicks]

In music school my Yamaha G60A was strung briefly with Saverez (silver wound) which go dead in three days and then regularly with Augustine reds,which all the guys used then.
Tom

[hockey punk]

I love La Bella 413P Studio strings . No boomy notes and pretty long lasting , they record real nice .
cheers .

[dobro]

Luthier strings are pretty good compared to Augustine-level strings, but D'Addario composites sound about as good and last way longer. They last so long, I'm sure they're covered in more dirt than strings with a shorter life. They last so long that I don't notice the tone changing like I do with normal strings.

[LI Slim]

It's true. They maintain their brightness for months. I don't end up changing them until the D string dies or something or I just think, "these strings have been on for too long".

Dobro, have you ever tried Hannabach strings? I saw them recommended on some classical guitar site. German engineering.

[dobro]

Hannabachs? No, but thanks for the name. I'm gonna change my D'Addarios this week for something else, just to see. I have an idea that the first three days of a new set of strings have more life, buzz and better sound than the composites. If that's so, it means change your strings when it's time to track, and use the D'Addarios when you're into a songwriting or practising phase.

[LI Slim]

This of course raises the sub-issue of whether one should use different strings for recording than for playing out. Hockey Punk, above, recommended La Bella "studio" strings. Apparently, and I'm new to this one, some manufacturers make classical strings especially for recording, strings that are designed to be as full and even as possible. Kind of like a natural compression. I mean to try this at some point (like if I ever finish setting up my home studio), but It's possible that such a goal should really apply only to classical music. I WANT my stuff to sound a little roudy.

[dobro]

I replaced the D'Addario composites with some Luthiers today, silver series. Those composites have been on the guitar for a *long* time - maybe 3 months. Yet the new strings are more alive, and more flexible to the touch. The only thing I don't like about them is a kind of new string twang on the 3 lower strings, which will settle down tomorrow I reckon. I'm hoping they last for 10 days.

The next experiment will be to go back to composites in two weeks and see how they sound in the first few days.

When I get rich, I'll change my strings every week. Some day EVERY WEEK WILL BE A NEW STRING WEEK - it will seem normal...

"I WANT to sound a little rowdy". Yeah, exactly. Classical guitar tends to be demur and proper. I overdrive the nylon strings all the time. I think it sounds good.

[LI Slim]

It's interesting that the new Luthiers are more flexible. Are they the same tension as your composites?

I've ordered a set of Hannabach 850's, which were recommended for recording and otherwise. They cost like $12 (plus shipping and handling). We'll see.

I don't think I would ever change nylon strings every week - I think they sound best in the 1-3 week period, composites even longer.

I definitely think that classical guitars are great for really expressive blues and folk playing. It's distinctive too -- it makes me sound different from all those other pickers out there (especially important when they are much better players)-- people often compliment the sound. I've also been very happy with the way it amplifies using a ribbon condenser pickup.

What classical guitar do you play?

[dobro]

Skip



[Edited by dobro on 10-28-2000 at 20:53]

[dobro]

Nothing special, an Admira, a Spanish factory-made guitar. It gets its sound from a pretty thin top - sometimes I think the bridge is just gonna rip out of the top suddenly and spectacularly. However, its intonation is ace, and I like the feel of it - it's really nice to play a guitar that doesn't abandon you as you work your way up the neck. Another plus is that it looks dead ordinary, and no one would want to steal it if they just glanced at it.

I've never heard of a Martin classical - what's it like? Have you ever played something made by a luthier who specialises in classical guitars?

[LI Slim]

As I recall from my Martin history book, the 00016C (which is the same size and looks a lot like other Martin 000 size guitars from that era) was made up until about 1971 (mine's 1970), as were a few other classicals. They never sold real well, and Martin redesigned their classicals in about 1971 (I forget the new model number) and then gave up altogether in about 1973. But one of the redesigned guitars ended up in the hands of Willie Nelson, who has made it famous. Willie plays one of those 1971 Martin classicals, which has a huge hole worn in it from picking down onto that thin top. Apparently his people have wired it in all sorts of ways and put a bunch of shellac and the like on it so it won't fall apart and for some reason it sounds pretty good. A few years ago Martin started making classicals again -- one of them has a raised neck and it's a lot of fun to play -- priced, I believe in the 1-2k range.

So my guitar has, as I recall, a solid spruce top, rosewood sides and a mahogany finger board. As I said, it looks a lot like a 000 steel string, except it's got the classic classical wider neck. 12 frets to the body. The action is low-to-middle. It's light as a feather (I wonder why my bridge doesn't fly off also). I was trying to spend less than $1000 three years ago when I bought it, and it blew everything else away, especially the power of the bass strings (it was the only used guitar that I tried; strangely, it was sitting there at Sam Ash in NYC where they sell very few vintage guitars). I did think that some of the Spanish guitars in the $300-$1000 range were very very nice; the Seagull classical was nice too. (I spent $900 including the original case -- from a collector's (which I am not) point of view, I think I overpaid by about $100, from a sound point of view, I think it compares with vintage Martin steel strings and new classicals that are worth 2 to 3x as much.)

No, I've never played a classical guitar made by a Luthier.

[Tom Hicks]

I as under the impression that cedar was the usual choice for a top,with rosewood sides and back and either rosewood or ebony fingerboard.Comments?
Tom

[LI Slim]

Yes, Tom, I just phoned Martin to double check. It has a Sitka Spruce top. I got the fingerboard and the back & sides mixed up, though. Rosewood fingerboard and mahogany back and sides..........

[Tom Hicks]

And my old music school buddy had a Ramirez with a cedar top.Of course,all Flaminco tops are cedar.I guess I just thought it was a convention.
You say Martin and of course I think Willie Nelson.I was manager of a music store in the 80s and sold Martins then (but no classicals).The pre-war herringbones are my personal favorites.I wonder what the distribution is of wood choice among classical guitars?
Tom

[dobro]

Tom, the wood used for the top isn't a convention, I've heard. It makes for a different sound - one's a bit mellower, one's a bit brighter, and of course I forget which way it's supposed to be. I'll believe it when I hear it. I like the bright sound on a flamenco guitar, but I don't like the slapping and buzzing of the strings much.

[gomanvangough]

I like La Bella Professional. 8 bucks! They are very accurate and hold their tone for a long time. I have 5 guitars all with La Bella and my primary guitar has a set that is about a year old (hard playing) and still sound great. The only negative is they are sensitive to temperature change.

I tried 4 sets of Martin strings and was very disapointed. With micometers, I measured variations of .003" in the dia. along the length in the e,b and g strings which made them almost impossible to tune. I build classical guitars (hobby) and have been playing over 30 years.

Re Wood:
Cedar/brazilian rosewood/ebony is most common. Spruce is used in high end guitars but takes a while to reach maturity and will go dead if unplayed for an extended time. Cedar sounds good immediately but not as good as mature spruce. I used to use spruce but now use cedar because it is more forgiving. Cyprus is traditional for flamenco soundboards.

[dobro]

Arise, O thread!

Okay, I put the Luthiers on and used them for a couple of weeks. Comparing them to the D'Addario composites, the biggest difference was string squeak, and since I'm doing a couple of songs with some long, fast slides up and down the neck, I'm going back to the D'Addarios today. That's much more important to me than how long they last.

Goman - if you try out some D'Addarios, do that trick with the micrometer and let us know what you find.

[LI Slim]

Dobro, I'm assuming that the Luthiers had more squeak and you did not want that, yes? I suppose that since new strings are more likely to squeak more, the long life itself of the composites is an anti-squeak factor.

By the way, I'm starting to record with my new set up and I'm very happy so far with the composite strings and my AT4047 mic, about 6 inches away.

[dobro]

I put the composites on yesterday and today played on them. Squeak all gone! The sound of the composites is fine by comparison. I think I'll try alternating composites with other strings, and see if I can find *anything* that is as good or better. Plus I can build up enough D'Addario points to get the wooden stool...

[LI Slim]

Hannabach, that is. I finally put on my Hannabach strings. They make several varieties; these are called PSP (No. 850), for Precision Smooth Polished.

They are, well, precise, smooth and polished. I'm very happy with the balance of body and brightness. Strong, resonant bass notes. Excellent percussive sound of fingernails hitting strings. Ringing treble notes. They are quickly holding their tune as well. No squeak. I'm recording something with them now and these may at least be the ideal recording string for me.

I don't know. Maybe I'd left on the D'Addario composites for so long that they just sound better by comparison to old, overused strings. But I think they're a little better than new composites, although I do kinda miss that special G string.

[flattop]

D'addarios man,,tttttttttttttthey rock fer sure, try da extra hard tension,i never went back after usin' dem