Guitar Cab Mic'ing.

[zenabi]

I cannot get a great tone from mic'ing my cab. Here's what I have to work with:

Marshall 9200 100w
TC Electronics G-Major
Yamaha SPX-90
3 SM-57 Mics
1 Condenser Mic

Questions:
1) Is there a certain distance the mics have to be from the cab that is better than others?
2) Should I use NO effects and add the effects during the mastering?
3) Volume loud or soft?

You get the picture. HELP!!!!! I'm trying to achieve a Nickelback/Staind type of distortion. Something that is smooth through the progressions etc.

Zen

[Farview]

If it doesn't sound good with a 57 in front of it, it probably just doesn't sound good. All this starts at the source which I am assuming is the G-Major. The normal mistakes are too much gain and eqing the midrange out. This is the exact opposite of what you need to do to get a good sound on tape. Guitars will always sound duller in person than they do in a finished mix.

[bleyrad]

Yup - get your ear to the speaker while you play. If it doesn't sound perfect there, it certainly won't sound perfect recorded.
Amps set for live usage typically have way too much low-end, too much gain or gain of the wrong kind, too much verb, and not enough presence.
As a starting point stick the 57 two inches away, halfway between the centre of the speaker cone and the outer edge. Then make small movements in positioning and angle until it sounds best.

[reshp1]

For Distorted, mic the amp pretty close, from right on the grill to a few inches back. The center of the speaker will be the brightest, most distinct sounding, the edges more body and blurred/less harsh depending on your perspective. Tilting the mic will further influence the sound. You should be able to find a sweet spot by moving the mic around alone (provided your amp sounds good).

[Red Dog Studios]

Also when you find a good spot for the 57, you might wanna place your condenser mic a few feet (3'-to-5') back and mix that mic in with the mix. you can get some good sounds that way too. one time i recorded a amp with a 57 on the grill and a condenser mic in the next room with the door open and i mixed that mic in a lil and got a pretty good "roomy" or "life-like" sound from that. but if you mix to much of it in, it will just sound like someone playing a guitar down the hall or something lol.

[HangDawg]

It's true, if you don't literally stick your ear right up where the mic goes, you'll never truly know what the mic is hearing. And the amp has to be at volume. It sucks but you have to do it. Just make your adjustments quick and get out. It's taken me a long time but I've finally gotten the hang of it.

[southbound]

Like the previous poster did, I like to mic right on the cab and another mic at a distance (differs for every song) - maybe 10 to 15 feet, that will give you a natural 10-15ms predelay which is a very neat little trick. What are you recording to?

[zenabi]

HangDawg........your suggestion reminds me of a time when I called the neighborhood retard and told him I was the gas company needing a volunteer to smell for a gas leak until we could have a truck arrive. I instructed him to go out to the phone pole on the street corner and sniff the very base all the way around until he smelled natural gas. He did it as I was watching through my window. I was about 15 then. So.............is this one of those deals? -Zen

[Farview]

You sound isn't the same at the speakers as you hear it standing in front of it.

There are two components to guitar tone.
1. The sound coming out of the speakers
2. The response of the amp. (the feel of it as you play)

A microphone will pick up #1 and ignore #2. Most people make the mistake of confusing the feeling they get from a certain sound with the sound itself. Most of these people are using some sort of solid state device for their distortion and tend to use a lot of effects.

[zenabi]

I am using an ADA MP-2 Tube Pre-amp by the way. So..........with that in mind.........

[gbdweller]

The SM57 is a great mic for micing guitar cabs. I usually place mine directly in front of the best sounding speaker in my cabinet about 2"-4" out from the center of the cone and angle the mic slightly towards the center for brighter sound and slightly towards the edge for 'woodier' sound. Less is more when recording guitar. Especially gain and effects. You can always add effects during the mixdown. The SPX90 is great for adding great reverbs at mixdown. As far as putting my ear directly in front of a loud cabinet to sample the sound? Last I checked there haven't been any advancements made in ear transplant surgery. Remember you only get one pair...protect them!!!

[HangDawg]

Originally Posted by zenabi

HangDawg........your suggestion reminds me of a time when I called the neighborhood retard and told him I was the gas company needing a volunteer to smell for a gas leak until we could have a truck arrive. I instructed him to go out to the phone pole on the street corner and sniff the very base all the way around until he smelled natural gas. He did it as I was watching through my window. I was about 15 then. So.............is this one of those deals? -Zen

No joke man. That's what you have to do.

[HangDawg]

Originally Posted by gbdweller

The SM57 is a great mic for micing guitar cabs. I usually place mine directly in front of the best sounding speaker in my cabinet about 2"-4" out from the center of the cone and angle the mic slightly towards the center for brighter sound and slightly towards the edge for 'woodier' sound. Less is more when recording guitar. Especially gain and effects. You can always add effects during the mixdown. The SPX90 is great for adding great reverbs at mixdown. As far as putting my ear directly in front of a loud cabinet to sample the sound? Last I checked there haven't been any advancements made in ear transplant surgery. Remember you only get one pair...protect them!!!

You don't have to stay there for very long. But you'd be suprised how shitty of a sound the mic is actually picking up. There's nothing strange about it. Ever read the heavy guitar recording thread? If not you should. It's here somewhere.

[Farview]

Originally Posted by zenabi

I am using an ADA MP-2 Tube Pre-amp by the way. So..........with that in mind.........

That would be your problem. Those things sound terrible under most conditions. Too much gain, too little midrange.

[zenabi]

Could you give me a good suggestion for a pre-amp used for recording? I am really looking for something that can give me a more modern sound like Staind, Breaking Benjamin, Nickelback type of guitar sound. Suggestions?

[Dogman]

This is how I do my guitars, and they may or may not be near what you want. I mic really close....next to the grill, center of speaker. I also do 1 guitar direct, and try and blend them if necessary. It also seems to take a bit of eq work to get the sound I really want, but I try and get it close with the amp. And I don't have great equipment. A couple of inexpensive mics, and a DMP3 for a pre.

[Calwood]

One thing you could do that i know some people have had luck with,..is to research those bands that you like and find out what they use to record with. But,..you wont find out everything they use,..and,..the things that they do use,..you prolly wont be able to afford. But,..then you could research that equipment and see if you can find anything comparable to it in your price range. You might even find out that the used some really cheap gear in a creative way. Never know.
Also,..what you could do,..is try to come up with your own sound. Just a suggestion.

Take 'er easy,..
Calwood

[Farview]

Originally Posted by zenabi

Could you give me a good suggestion for a pre-amp used for recording? I am really looking for something that can give me a more modern sound like Staind, Breaking Benjamin, Nickelback type of guitar sound. Suggestions?

I've been able to get those types of sounds out of a Pod xt and a mesa 90/90. Your Marshall amp will probably be fine.

[Sonixx]

Originally Posted by HangDawg

It's true, if you don't literally stick your ear right up where the mic goes, you'll never truly know what the mic is hearing. And the amp has to be at volume. It sucks but you have to do it. Just make your adjustments quick and get out. It's taken me a long time but I've finally gotten the hang of it.

How do you determine a good tone at 100+ db?

[xfinsterx]

A good cabinet is very, very important.

Also as Farview said, youll need a better pre, perhaps a dmp3 would cut the mustard.

One more thing....typicly those tones on those albums you love so much are a combination of two or more takes between two differnt heads, cabinets.
These cabs are usually multi miced with 2 to 3 mics on one speaker, to add depth and flavor, adding dimension and sonic appeal to the overall result.

Also you are hearing a large image when hearing a major rock release such as said artists.

This is due to a good artist/player, the afore mentioned techniques for multi tracking, and lastly a great word clock.

Can you get a good sound with what youve got now?
Well yes, you can probably get something after practicing technique that you can live with.

But to attain a major guitar sound youll have to have a few extra tools.

Best of luck.

-Finster

[xfinsterx]

Also, with exception of using a low pass, and a high pass you shouldnt need eq whatsoever.

Whatever sound/tone/eq you want from your head and cabinet should be achieved there, and only there IMO.

Also, if it sounds like crap....it is.

Compressing a bad sound only makes a bad sound have less dynamics...useless.

It needs to be good from the start.

-Finster

[gbdweller]

I think most replies here have the same theme. The better the sound before it's recorded, the better it will record. I too, have had good luck with the POD. For heavy rhythm parts, if you want a HUGE sound, record the part twice through two different amps and pan to opposite sides. If you don't have access to a second amp, use your setup but change your sound slightly for the second take. The doubled part combined with slightly different tones creates a 'wall of amps' type feel. As far as listening to the sound at the speaker, I like to isolate the cabinet and listen at the board so I can get a true sense of what the mic is hearing without risking my hearing. High volume tends to mask problems such as poor eq and unwanted types of distortion from the human ear. That's why bad bands play as loud as possible

[HangDawg]

Originally Posted by Sonixx

How do you determine a good tone at 100+ db?

I don't know if you've read this but I sure there are some in this thread that haven't. http://www.badmuckingfastard.com/sound/slipperman.html

There it is. All you need to know about recording distorted guitar. And pay attention to the part that says you have to get yer head in there if for nothing else to find which speaker is the best.

[Sonixx]

Originally Posted by HangDawg

I don't know if you've read this but I sure there are some in this thread that haven't. http://www.badmuckingfastard.com/sound/slipperman.html

There it is. All you need to know about recording distorted guitar. And pay attention to the part that says you have to get yer head in there if for nothing else to find which speaker is the best.

if you want to take that literally for loud guitar... go at it. you won't be doing that very many times. I wouldn't recommend anyone take that advice literally without some form of hearing protection.

anyways, it really doesn't matter what you hear. what matters is what the mic hears. there are other safer ways to map the speaker.

[Farview]

Originally Posted by xfinsterx

Also as Farview said, youll need a better pre, perhaps a dmp3 would cut the mustard.

He's looking for a guitar preamp, the dmp3 is a mic preamp. Pod XT or Mesa Boogie makes one I can't remember the name of and the Triaxis.