good distortion?

[ALLY]

I'm trying to get the heavy diostortions of newer rock bands like creed and godsmack and stuff like that. but listening to my recordings my distortion sounds really "loose" I guess. It seems the sounds on the cd's are a little tighter, deeper and heavier than I can get. I play a les paul through a rat usually and even tried a DOD super distortion and still can't get the right effect. I've heard that some people use a compression pedal before the distortion. Would that Help? I also hear "only use compression when necessary". I hardly even know what compression is. Ive tried going direct and miking my eight inch peavey nothing gets me th right sound. should I double it maybe. any suggestions would help.

[El Tipo]

I read in Eq magazine the guys in creed used Mesa Boogie triple rectifier heads with 1 4x12 and 1 2x15 and that's how they got their tone. I would suggest:
A high gain amplifier with tubes preferably, then a cabinet with 12 inch speakers, compression no way! overdrive yes, chorus, maybe, oh yes some eq for the guitar very important!

Cheers,

El TIPO

[Tom Hicks]

Lots of guys say their amp (tube) doesn't sound good unless its cranked.IMHO it is the saturation of output tubes and NOT the grainy saturation of preamp tubes that is the source of the sweet singing distortion that is signature to rock guitar.The bees in a bottle distortion of transisters leaves me cold personally,but what the hell,knock your socks off if the dual rectifier sound is what turns you on.As far as I know,nobody but Mesa Boogie has that particular tone.So be prepared to spend some significant wampum ($1000+)to join the tribe.But they do have a rackmount preamp in the $500 range.
Tom

[dabluesman]

I've been using a Digitech RP-10 effects unit for quite a few years now and I've found that by using the Grunge distortion setting and tweaking the parametric EQ to a fat bottom heavy signal, I am able to get a good Godsmack/Metallica type sound. Though to get those tube harmonic's with it, I have to then run the signal through a tube preamp like a SansAmp GT-2. This works fine as a substitute, but to get into the true MesaBoogie "tribe", you'll have to use the dual rectifier.

[El Tipo]

There are many MANY ways to get good tube tone without having to buy a mesa, of course i would jump at the chance if i had the dough! In my case i have an old T100 Yamaha all tube amp head, very quiet by the way, it's essentially a soldano design but made by yamaha. And that thing has tone for days, the crunch on that thing is huge! Add an overdrive and that's all you need. I only have it connected to a 2x12 but it roars!

So you don't need an "Boutique" amp like a Mesa, shop around, look into different cheaper brands you should get something really nice for $300-$400. It will be used, but that's what techs are for, to help you fix it (if it needs fixing).

Also, check out the ampage website http://www.ampage.com they have some great information there on how to get good tube tone and how to record it.

[Ginzoo]

El Tipo,exactly where is the info on the tube tone???
The link goes to a list of a bunch of shitty get rich quick scheme wannabe's.You're not a SPAMMER are ya?Dragon will rip your sac off if thats the case.
Hey I could make a million or two by next tuesday and buy everybody on the hr/bbs a mesa or a Caddilac.

[El Tipo]

OOPS!!!!

Sorry guys! I referred the wrong site!

No I´m not a spammer, i am just passing along information, i am just a newbie with some information what the hell is wrong with that?

By the way, the website is http://www.amptone.com not http://www.ampage.com ok?

Sorry about the mistake!

Now go get toned!

[Ginzoo]

Thanks dude.I am going to get very Toned right now!
Ginzoo

[Sonixx]

i suppose you're trying to get this sound when recording.

i'd recommend going with lower wattage amps, 50W or less. make sure the output section runs full out. i've found some great tones in my JCM-800 combo(50W) using the clean channel on 2 and the Master Vol on 10. the output stage is where i'm getting the tone(crunch, but not ice pick). also, i generally use a Sans Amp GT-2 in front, but be careful not to overdrive the input stage. then it sound like crap, real transistery...

when i want a smoother tone (rhythms), i use my BF Princeton reverb on 10. really smooth, but i have back down the treble on the GT2 and the bass on the amp is at zero. i run the GT-2 at a lower level.

one other point, i mic (pointed on the cone edge) two different speaker types and pan them. i've found success with:

Greenback 25W (be careful about break up)
GT12 Vintage
GT-80 (i think. i don't remember specifically)

my JCM-800 has the GT-80 and my 4x12 has the Greenbacks and GT12. also my 4x12 can run 8,16 and 4 ohms selecting different speaker combinations. when i play the JCM-800 combo, i mic the combo and i also mic a greenback in the 4x12. sounds great.

set yourself up with as many combinations as you can. and experiment a lot.

-kp-

[happy hour]

get a peavey transtube amp, like the express 112 or bandit 112, they sound very nice and aren't OVERLY expensive. You should take your dist pedals to a guitar store, sit yourself infront of a peavey and start twistin the knobs...

i've got two peaveys and all my friends have em too, they're the best mid priced amps out there!

[ALLY]

thanks i'll try the suggestions. i'm playing on a peavey rage 158 transtube. i've only been playing electric for like a year or so some my gear is very limited. whats the sans amp gt-2 , is that like a a pre amp? usually I just go tuner>distortion>amp. What exactly does the pre amp do?
thanks alot, that little peavey can crank too. oh yeah and I'm tryin to save for like maybe a marshall or mesa boogie head and cabinet, used of course I'm broke, but should I look for a better qaulity smaller combo first?
THANKS

[El Tipo]

Do you have a GT-2? You can put it in front of the Peavey, dial in a crunch setting and voila! Not a Mesa but it's a start!

A Gt-2 is a device for going direct into the board either for live of to record. But you can also route it through an amp, preferably a tube amp, and get more realistic tube sounds.

[mojovoodoo]

beware of effects that don't give you hard bypass.if you're gonna spend time and cash on a decent tube amp,then either put the effect through the effect loop,so that your killer tube tone isn't muddied up by the effect ,or make sure it is a higher end effect,that promises a hard bypass.me personally,have found that a ratt and the d.o.d.,are both thin and tend to lose the tone.there are some newer distortions ,like a buddah,or tube works,that have an actual 12ax7 tube in the pedal,and they brag that they will just complement your tone and let you keep your original tone.if you are not that much of a tone freak ,and can deal with a soft bypass,and want just a beefy distortion,the boss distortion pedals produce some great results,the tone controls let you really dial in a strong powerful distortion,without having to really spend $$$$.the orange pedal,i forget the name.but all the guys talking about the dual rectifiers and the mesas and the jcm marshall,they are right on the money.you want that true tone100%?get a marshall stack with some nice smoking tubes ,groove tubes,it may cost you a mere2000$,but it will last a lifetime.half price,the sovteks,get a real nice crunch.oh,wait,this site is recording.com?ummm.....these new amp modeling desktops,rack-mounts,or pedals,ones that can emulate several amplifiers in one package.as far as recording an amazing metal tone,one that gets a good plexi or sometimes they even use the artists name as the description of the tone.i get great results with boss,i just recorded a mrshall stack "sound"emulated,on the br-8,but i know they offer their version of"cosm"(amp modeling)in their foot pedals(the really big ones)anyway,at playback,you can't tell that i just plugged in direct,it sounded so beefy and seriously damaging.i know that line 6,and the johnson line,so many companies all the way down to zoom do this.i guess it all depends on what else you need.

[happy hour]

You could check out the Mesa Boogie Triaxis and V-Twin. Mesa Boogie tone in a box that you don't need to spend $1200 for. You also wouldn't have to kill your ears pumpin a Mesa through a recto 4x12 cab cuz you can either run it into the amp you've got now or you can DI it into a recorder.... here's the link.


http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_In...___v-twin.html

[mojovoodoo]

i can't find it an online price.where can i find the v-twin,this thing sounds like it could be a monster.or name a store that has it.or what is the price of these things?

[happy hour]

In my 2001 Guitar and Bass Buyers guide they have the list price for the V-Twin as $299US. I've seen it at local guitar stores, thats probably your best bet, any guitar store that sells boogie stuff should order it for you. The triaxis is supposed to be killer, I have a review for it somewhere and I'll try to find a price on it for ya.

[ALLY]

Dude them things look pretty sweet! I never heard of them before. they're made to go together? I was looking for dealers that sell mesa yesterday and the closest one is like an hour and a half away. that really sucks. I'd like to hear one. Maybe when you find that review you could share a little of it. sweet, thanks. Oh yeah, mojo, and I'm not happy with my DOD distortion at all. The RAT is a little better but not really what I want. Have you ever played the BUDDHA? how is it?

[happy hour]

Ok, so I can't find that review, but I will tell you what I know about both products.

The V-Twin and TriAxis are NOT made to work together, they both do the same things, but they go about them differently. Both are preamps, both have tubes, and both can be used as DI boxes. You can also get the V-Twin in a rack unit like the TriAxis.

The differences are in the layout. The V-Twin has far fewer sounds that the TriAxis and is way cheaper (I can't find a price on the TriAxis, but I'm sure it costs much more). The V-Twin lets you switch between clean, dirty, and a mixture of the two (very cool). The rackmount has 3-band EQ's for the clean and dirty channel where the pedal version has one 3-band EQ that is shared by both channels. All sounds are taken from the Dual Rectifier amps.

The TriAxis is programmable like a multi-effects processor. You get 128 presets and it is MIDI controllable. Another goodie is that it has a programmable effects loop (I believe it can be turned on or off with each preset). The sounds on the TriAxis are taken from Boogie's Mark 1, IV, IIC+, Dual Rectifier, etc. It seems to be much more versatile as a recording tool as it has 2 clean and 6 dist types that can all be EQ'd and adjusted as much as you could want.

I hope this helped, and if you do find a price on the TriAxis down the line please share. I got a nice 30 page colour catalogue for free off their webpage a year or two ago, you should see if they still offer it... Boogie stuff is great!! Happy Hunting!

P.S. Closest Mesa dealer to me is an hour or more away, too. What a shame!

[Helmut]

Yeah, go for Peavey and use its own overdrive channel, thats usually the best sound. Or use the old trusted Turbo Overdrive from Boss with the amp and pedal tone settings on VERY BASS. And then crank it up.

My experience tells me that the sound is also very dependant on where the recording mic is situated. Maby experiment with the placement a little more.

Honestly, before I got my new Peavey I had a little no-name 10Watt practice amp which has a tear on the speaker, and with that I managed to get a huge sound on the recording (I must admit I only managed it once).

[Tweedville]

Small Fender amp (or Peavey),EVEN (gasp!) solid state........mic about a foot away with a good condenser mic.Some of the greatest tones for recording I've made have been with amps that are no good for nothing but practicing.I have had alot of different amps,but sometimes the mic hears those little Peavey paper weights differently than we do.A real good amp (believe it or not) is the old Squier 15 by Fender.....it tapers down for blues or cranking ,and not many cheap amps can do that.Now this is coming from a dedicated vintage tube guy.Yes,I would like to be able to mic my Bassman in my house,but I can't!

[foo]

Gentlemen, re: Mesa Boogie amps.

To whoever said he would like to hear one before making any judgement, just turn on the radio. Their user list is like a who's who of the music world, and has been since I started using their amps in 1979.

It seems like we're comparing elephants and ants here.

On the one hand we're talking about a ratt or dod distortion pedal and then a top-of-the-line Boogie.

I bought my first Boogie unseen - I had played a friends, with a different configuration and speaker, but no real exposure to the model I was looking to get.

When mine came, I hated it for the first three days. Once I realized (by trial and error) that all the controls were interactive, things got better real fast. (They're not any more).

I have used nothing else since 1979 (except for blackface Fender's for specialty gigs) and would not use anything else.

I have used them on every type of gig from the Calgary Hockey stadium to a small intimate jazz gig, to a big-band dinner dance to a hard-rock 'where's-my-ear-protectors-this-is-gonna-be-loud' and for every gig it produces the perfect sound.

Buy a Boogie, live happily ever after. It's the last amp you'll ever have to buy.

foo