I hesitate putting this on here

[jeff5xo]

Ok, I didn't really want to put this on here YET. I'ts not mixed properly, there's no eq or verbs on drums yet. Anyway, take a listen, and tell me what you think. I'm a posting virgin, so go easy on me. Thanks to Tim B., Wade, and all others, who answered my questions regaurding recording drums!

http://www.nowhereradio.com/5x0/singles

[xfinsterx]

Not Bad!

.........

[systmovadown]

i cant hear anything from nowhere radio unless it lets me download

[jeff5xo]

Hang on, I might have uploaded it wrong, I'm new to this nowhere radio thang. I'll try to fix it.

[jeff5xo]

Ok, it should work for you now. Sorry, I'm computer challenged!

[systmovadown]

great bass and I like that snare.


mics?
what kind of drumset?

[jeff5xo]

DW drumset (sounded awesome from the get-go)

Overheads- Octava MK-12
Bass- Beta 52
Snare-MD-421
Hi-tom-SM-57
Lo tom- MD421
Ambient mc, placed outside the drum room- KSM-32


The room we recorded drums in was 10x10, with 7' ceilings
So obviously, the room was the weakest link.

[the pete]

questions on the drums-
im having some problems myself recording drums, i know all my drums are tuned right, so i know thats not the problem, but anyway...

so there's not any eq on them at all? also, this might seem like kind of a dumb question, but are all the volumes on the drum mics at the exact same level? cause ive been having some questions that. heres what im using for mics.

2 shure sm81's - overheads
sm57 - snare
beta 52 - kick
oktava mk 219 - tom
oktaka mk 219 - tom

basiclly im just wondering what you did to get that sound? (im trying to record my band so i dont know taht much about this) but that sounds awesome man. nice job

[treymonfauntre]

the snare sounds so good

[Tim Brown]

Hi Jeff,

I think it sounds really good, and the song has a good musical hook to it on top of that.


Tim

[jeff5xo]

Hey Pete, thanks for the comments. To answer your quetion simply, what I did to get those drum sounds, was take advice from the good people on this site. I "hounded" Tim with relentless questioning!!!!! Since everyone was so good to me with helping out with my questions, I think it's only fair that I do my best to help you out.

First off, the drums right now are completely dry, with the exception of the kick which has a hint of compression on it to make it a little snappier. Here is how I mic'd t5he kit:

I started off doing the 3 mic technique, which is basically 2 overheads brought real close in to the drums and in-phase with each other. (do a search and you'll find the link) and a bass drum mic. This produce "ok" results and I would definately recommend it to the novice recorder. I decided to move the mics out (away from the kit) a bit. The obverheads ended up being 4' away from the center of the snare on each side. Also the boom stands were directly in front of the kit with the overheads looking at the hi hat (angled slightly toward the snare) and the floor tom.

The bass drum was tricky. The best piece of advice I can give you, is build a bass drum tunnel with heavy moving blankets (THANKS TIM!!) The more you isolate your bass drum from the rest of the kit, the more you can do with it (compression, eq) BUT you should ALWAYS try to get the best possible sound to tape. Don't try to "fix it in the mix"!
The bass drum mic was positioned just outside of the resonant side hole looking at the beater. What really helped out with the bass drum, for me, was renting a Klark-Teknik pre-amp. I would recommend renting a solid pre-amp to capture your bass drum, if you can get one.

Basically for the toms, and snare I started the same way. Mic 2" above the rim, 2" in, looking at the center of the drum. I just tweaked from there. Alot of people like to put the mic right on top of the snare, like 1" above, 1" in, but that just sounded to choked for me.

Basically, the majority of your drum sound should come from your overheads. I believe you said you had SM-81's, which IMO is a solid overhead mic. I know it sounds simple, but throw your overheads up, and blend the rest of the kit in with them. One other note, it is crucial when mixing down your drums to mute your toms when there not beinmg hit. You'll hear in my sample (toms not muted yet!) at some point the cymbals sound clangy and mid rangy (is that a word?) It's because I haven't muted my toms yet. That is the second great piece of advice I can give you (THANKS AGAIN TIM!)

So anyway, feel free to ask more questions, I'll be happy to answer what I can!

[jeff5xo]

I ran short on time on my last post. There's a couple of other things I wanted to say. There are 4 main factors in recording drums that have come up in EVERY article I've ever read on the subject:

Good room + good drums + good drummer + good equiptment = Good recording

Take one of those out, and your recording WILL suffer. Am I saying you can't get a usable recording? No, not by any means, just keep that in mind, and be realistic about what you set out to achieve.

Also, do tons of research. Anytime I record something, I research what are the best ways to record it. I'll spend hours on this site as well as others. Lat me give you an example.

After recording drums, we moved on to doing the bass. I always assumed that the drums were the hardest thing to record, and based on my experience, they were. At least until I reached the point of wanting all of recordings to sound as professional as I could make them. Usually, I would plug the bass directly into my Hi-Z input on my recorder. It produses a less than accurate bass sound. I wanted to improve my skills so I researched. Alot of people said get a direct box so I did. I bought a Radial direct box. Wow, what an improvement. But it still wasn't there for me. Did more research. Alot of people suggested the Sans Amp Bass driver and the country man Di box. I went out and spent 200 on the sans amp, it was even better! Actually, it was very good, and I would recommend it to anyone, however I ended up achieving the sound I was after through a Boss GT-6B. But all the things I purchased for recording bass will be useful on another song, or another band. Research everything!

The last thing I wanted to say is find someone on the forum you can trust and respect. it wasn't just one person for me. Tim Brown and Wade helped me out directly. Others like Philgood, Rami, and Chessrock helped me indirectly. Find guys outside of the drum part as well. Look up posts from guys who actually do this for a living, like Bruce (Bluebear) and Ritchie Monroe. LET ME SAY THAT AGAIN, THESE GUYS DO IT FOR A LIVING, AND DO IT WELL. What they say is VERY valuable to me. I've been recording for a long time, but I am ALWAYS trying to better myself.


Whew! Sorry, didn't mean to soap box!!! Again, any questions for me, I'll be happy to answer.

BTW Tim, thanks for the comments on the song, but I assure you it's no "Crackhead Girlfriend" !!!!! LOL!!!

[the pete]

Originally Posted by jeff5xo

Hey Pete, thanks for the comments. To answer your quetion simply, what I did to get those drum sounds, was take advice from the good people on this site. I "hounded" Tim with relentless questioning!!!!! Since everyone was so good to me with helping out with my questions, I think it's only fair that I do my best to help you out.

First off, the drums right now are completely dry, with the exception of the kick which has a hint of compression on it to make it a little snappier. Here is how I mic'd t5he kit:

I started off doing the 3 mic technique, which is basically 2 overheads brought real close in to the drums and in-phase with each other. (do a search and you'll find the link) and a bass drum mic. This produce "ok" results and I would definately recommend it to the novice recorder. I decided to move the mics out (away from the kit) a bit. The obverheads ended up being 4' away from the center of the snare on each side. Also the boom stands were directly in front of the kit with the overheads looking at the hi hat (angled slightly toward the snare) and the floor tom.

The bass drum was tricky. The best piece of advice I can give you, is build a bass drum tunnel with heavy moving blankets (THANKS TIM!!) The more you isolate your bass drum from the rest of the kit, the more you can do with it (compression, eq) BUT you should ALWAYS try to get the best possible sound to tape. Don't try to "fix it in the mix"!
The bass drum mic was positioned just outside of the resonant side hole looking at the beater. What really helped out with the bass drum, for me, was renting a Klark-Teknik pre-amp. I would recommend renting a solid pre-amp to capture your bass drum, if you can get one.

Basically for the toms, and snare I started the same way. Mic 2" above the rim, 2" in, looking at the center of the drum. I just tweaked from there. Alot of people like to put the mic right on top of the snare, like 1" above, 1" in, but that just sounded to choked for me.

Basically, the majority of your drum sound should come from your overheads. I believe you said you had SM-81's, which IMO is a solid overhead mic. I know it sounds simple, but throw your overheads up, and blend the rest of the kit in with them. One other note, it is crucial when mixing down your drums to mute your toms when there not beinmg hit. You'll hear in my sample (toms not muted yet!) at some point the cymbals sound clangy and mid rangy (is that a word?) It's because I haven't muted my toms yet. That is the second great piece of advice I can give you (THANKS AGAIN TIM!)

So anyway, feel free to ask more questions, I'll be happy to answer what I can!

awesome. thanks so much man thats gonna help me out a lot! also, did you mic the amp for that sound or is a it a plug-in?

[jeff5xo]

If you're referring to the guitar sound, I went direct out of my GT-8, but those weren't keeper tracks. I just put them on there to give you guys something to put the drums in "context". If you're referring to the bass, it was ran direct out of the GT-6b, no amp. We actually tried micing the amp (our bass player has an awesome rig) with the Beta 52, but it was just not a "tight " enough sound.

[jeff5xo]

For all of you that are interested, I just uploaded a new version of the song. The drums are now eq'ed and have verb and compression. There is also a scratch vocal track. The mix isn't complete, but the drums are done.

http://www.nowhereradio.com/5x0/singles