AllenHeath GL 2400-24

[c7sus]

For $1899 new in the box at my local GC.

I just watched the powerpoint about the matrix and this looks like a pretty cool mixer. Way beyond the 1402vlz I've been using. That matrix looks handy as hell for headphone and alternate mixes.

So is $1899 rock bottom??? I've had the Mackie for over 6 years so I think it would take a while to outgrow a mixer like this.

Whaddya think???

http://www.glseries.com/gl2400.php

[DonGraham]

I have spent more time than I care to admit on the A&H GL series consoles......(GL-4000 inparticular).....Decent sounding consoles with a nice eq section and lots of functionality...My only complaint at the time was they were a little. ---NOISY....however I was used to VCA consoles.........It looks like a lot of mixer for the money

[xstatic]

VCA's themselves won't lower the noise floor. In fact, in the first days of VCA circuits in audio consoles, many people actually looked for consoles in which the VCA circuits and automation could be disabled because they felt that the non vca part of the circuit sounded better. I personally have a theory though that would explain in which Don's post could be justified. In general, consoles which offer VCA's are larger and more expensive. Often times these consoles also have better preamps, summing busses, EQ's etc... since they are generally marketed towards the high end market. For example, take the Soundcraft Series 5 and the Soundcraft Venue series. Its pretty well accepted that the Series 5 (Soundcraft's flagship live console) is a much better sounding desk than the Venue. However, it also costs between 5 and 8 times more than the venue and is built much better. Even with Allen Heath there is a big difference between an ML4000 and a GL 4000. The biggest differences are that the ML adds 2 more aux sends, more detailed EQ, different preamps, and VCA's. The ML is also more important. I am also convinced that this is why almost every rider I get requests a 48 channel console with VCA's. Many of those clients would have been completely fine not using VCA's, but by specing their console in the way that they did it guranatees that when they get to the venue that there will not be a Mackie waiting for them. However, a well designed console can easily have an excellent noise floor without having VCA's. The Midas Venice, Verona and Sienna are excellent examples of that, plus having TONS of headroom. The new GL series also has some preamp and EQ changes from the old ones which should help the noise problem. The new GL's are now using some of the technology from the new ML circuits and as a result the preamps have better noise specs, especially when you get closer to the top thrid of the gain pot, and the EQ's have a better feel to me, and once again can be pushed a little more before exposing the circuit. The old GL's really are what they are.... A solid flexible desk with a very fair price. Not really "desired" by many, but certainly usable and better than most other options near its price range at the time.

[DonGraham]

Originally Posted by UB802

What do VCA's have to do with noise? Careful how you answer.

Ok...I should have been more specific about that. But since we are now hijacking this thread I was refering to the use of subgroups on a console using VCA's. With a standard (non-vca) console such as the Gl-4000, when the channels are assigned to the subgroups they are passing through additional circuitry and amplifiers/pads. So even if the subgroup is set to unity gain, additional circuit paths gain stages and connections are involved in passing the signal to the master faders. for many shows I would find myself avoiding the subgroup mix and assigning the channels directly to the 2-bus. This made quick changes in programs material a pain in the ass---(for instance bring up all the vocals at this part)---but it would make for a quieter/cleaner mix....this became very apparent in theather shows (as oppossed to stadiums). When using a VCA based subgroup the voltage is essentially applied "directly" to the assigned channel. When the VCA is set at unity gain there is no additional noise (in theory) being added to the signal. This allows you to set up all your subgroups in as many layers as you want without automatically adding noise. Now as soon as the VCA is raised above unity gain, additional amplification is taking place an the whole noise argument goes out the window. But that noise is usally only added for a section of the song for which a group level change is needed and then returned to nominal. In general operation I would take a VCA based console any day.

[Chris Shaeffer]

C7, you guys still live up near Seattle?

I think you should wait at last a couple days- at least 15 hours or so- before deciding to make such a major purchase. I mean, money can be hard to come by and that's a lotta cash. Its risky, too- I mean how can you really *know* that its worth it until the cash is gone?

Which GC was it again, by the way?



-Chris

[c7sus]

The one in Lynnwood.

I have a love/hate relationship with them. Mostly I hate going there and dealing with them.

Thanks for the responses. I spent last night smoking a ton of weed and searching far and wide across the vast internet for info.

My head is still spinning this morning.

I wish I had about $3800 to throw at this I'd go for a nice Midas 320 on Ebay right now.

Anyways, after looking over everything I could find the GL looks pretty feature-packed for the dough. I gotta tell you though the jump from 4-buss to 8-buss is pretty steep! But I don't know WTF I would do with an 8-buss in my little setup. Mass overkill.

Besides, it just seems so much easier to justify $1900 after staring down $6000!

My wife told me yesterday just to go pick it up. She says "Is there anything down there you wanted but didn't buy?"

Hell YEAH! There's a ton of shit I want. I keep telling her we're only about $20,000 away from having a nice studio. I think I've spent about $7k this year and we're still $20,000 away!


In case you guys want to send me something nice for Xmas, here's what's on my list lately...........

Great River MP-2NV
Fender Blues Deluxe re-issue
Fulltone Tube Tape Echo
Fulltone OCD
Moog MURF
Moog V3.0 upgrade
Carvin headphone amp
Sennhieser phones
K&M Mic stands
More cables!

So far this year:

Dell XPS something 3.4g 1gRAM dual 250g/7200 drives
Lynx2A
Sonar4PE
G-Force MTron--- I can't wait to hear this one!
Minimoog Electric Blue
Moog Theramin
VX-351
CP-251
MF-104SD
MIDIsport 8x8s
Roland SPD20
Peterson VSII tuner
G&L Legacy bass for the kids
Indo-Strat for the kids
Manhasset music stand
Another $500 or so in accessory pedals and cabling

[c7sus]

I just noticed something about the GL2400.

It doesn't have AUX returns.

Is that common in the bigger format boards??? So do I route the aux return back through the EXT IN of the matrix to make a wet headphone submix???

Or route the stereo return to another pair of channel inputs and add to taste???

If it's the latter would one be better off getting a 32-channel rig to accomodate AUX returns???

Maybe this is it: the pair of stereo channels are intended to be used as AUX returns.........

Looks like you could do any of the above and maybe more.........

[c7sus]

So you guys think the VCA pres are noisy???

I'm using a Davisound now. Extremely clean even at high gain. I run direct to Lynx2A.

The mackie is just used for monitoring now. It's my only experience with mixers.

I was kinda hoping to get some useable recording pres out of the deal if possible. If not, it's gotta still be light years beyond the mackie.

The Midas Venice looks sweet but this is supposed to be a hobby!!!

So what about the comparable Soundcraft???

I mean I'd dig a GhostLE but again the $$$ ....... I guess with a piece like that you're getting solid pres you can record anything through.

[DonGraham]

I still think the console you are looking at is fine.....Allen and Heath make good stuff....The whole VCA thing is an ongoing debate in pro-audio.......although all (nearly) the high end live consoles have them.....heritage3000/4000....XL3/xl4...series 5.....pm4...etc...etc.

[xstatic]

I would like to know of one console with VCA's that has a comparable copnsole available without? Also, with the VCA's nowadays it is nearly impossible to "hear the vca circuit". 20 years ago yes, but not now. My studio console has VCA options. My console also has perchannel switches to take the VCA ciruit out of line. It sounds the same in or out.

Avoiding a VCA equipped console like the plague sounds liek a cheap way to hide the fact that you have never used a good console. Kind of a justfication. In the almost 10 years and hundreds of shows I have done, I have NEVER seen a reuqest to NOT have VCA's. However, VCA's are listed as a requirement on probably 98% or more of the halfway serious riders. Just like I have never seen someone request a passive full range system.

[c7sus]

I went back and looked into the Ghost and searched ebay some more. There are some interesting auctions out there.

But the Ghost seems like using a nuclear bomb to clean my bong.

And I couldn't find anything on the Soundcraft site explaining EXACTLY how they configure their amp circuit, like say Great River would.

I've got this crazy idea. I'd love a Great River too, or API. In fact a mixer wasn't really on my radar until I got to looking at the 2400. I don't wanna do the Mackie thing again. I never liked the sound of the vlz. Too harsh. The Onyx might be better but I want more routing capability than the Mackie Onyx 4-buss series offers.

So I'm sitting here thinking I could do the AH, maybe a couple months out do the GR ( or 4 API's for the same dough if I went for it now at Mercenary. ) and have a killer setup with 2 channels of Davisound, 2 channels of GR, and a versatile mixer to keep track of everything.

I left compressors out of the previous post.........

Way different ballgame moving beyond the entry-level stuff.......

This stuff is worse than heroin!!!

[robin watson]

Originally Posted by xstatic

However, it also costs between 5 and 8 times more than the venue and is built much better.

Sorry, I came across this and thought you were quipping that the desk costs a lot more (and is better built than) the building it's installed in.

[xstatic]

Sorry, Soundcraft makes a console they have called the "Venue".

[easychair]

Originally Posted by c7sus

And I couldn't find anything on the Soundcraft site explaining EXACTLY how they configure their amp circuit, like say Great River would.

The way they build the circuit is one of Great River's selling points. It is marketing, in a certain sense. With so many small high-end pre companies out there, you gotta explain in great flowery detail every aspect of construction just to stay in business. Soundcraft has a long history of (mostly) quality products that are accepted and requested all through the industry. They don't care if you know how their pres are built, beyond the fact that they are Soundcraft mic pres.

Don't drive yourself too crazy.