Help me tweak my sound?

[sirslurpee]

First off, I want to say thanks to everyone on this forum. I've only been here for a couple weeks but I've learned SO much. You guys rock, seriously!
Second, I've changed my kit, my mic setups (soo much) and almost changed my recording software, in fact, I might still do it heh. So I have a clip of me playing, I want you guys to listen to it and tell me if there is anything lacking in it. I've been told already that the toms sound a little bit quiet and I think that is due to the fact that they are not mic'd at all. The bass drum, IMO, sounds alright, but I think I want a little more "click sound" from it. (Sorry, still noob here) I'm thinking maybe moving the mic more inside the bass drum or maybe trying to do it with EQ?
Anyway, here is a link to the sample I recorded: drumsample.mp3

my equipment:
Peavey Radial Pro 5th anniversary kit (6 piece, i'm only using 3 toms though)
Paiste 502 cymbals
(2)CAD CM 217 - OH mics
CAD KM 212 - Kick mic
Presonus Firepod w/ Cubase LE

I have some pics, I'm only gonna post a couple though:









So that should give you a good idea of where my mics are. I tried to use the "2 stick" method, although I kind of brought them further than 2 sticks due to the way my stands are. I don't think anything is out of phase though. My bass drum mic looks like it is towards the bottom of the hole but I think that is just the angle of the shot. I placed it about 2 and a half inches out from the hole.
So any criticism on the recording or set up is welcome. You guys help me so much. Seriously, thanks so much!

[systmovadown]

wow...those are cad mics?

for the bass....for that click sound...tune the batter head really lose...but not lose that you'll break it.

also i see that you put your bass mic outside..put that inside and see what happens.

[systmovadown]

Also try this on your bass to see if you can get a clicky sound.

with EQ..

cut from 200-800
boost anywhere < 31
Boost around 5
and Boost around 25 >

[sirslurpee]

Thanks a ton! I'm gonna try it tomarrow when I get a chance... I think I might try changing the muffling on the bass drum too... maybe take out that Rem-O and put a towel or maybe a pillow in it and tune it down a bit... I have another question too....
If I wanted to add tom/snare mics to my setup, how would I go about making sure everything is set up right?

[tourettes5139]

I don't think that the toms sound too quiet. I'd say your biggest problem is the kick. It sounds kind of dull, and flat. Try moving the kick mic inside the drum more, try some different muffling, like you said and try some eq. I'm not exactly sure what systemovadown meant with those numbers, but I think he meant boost at around 3.1 Khz, but I don't know what he meant by the 5 and the 25.

Oh yeah, also, if it was me, I would like to have the snare centered better. But having a seperate snare mic will help with that.

Good luck!

[systmovadown]

Originally Posted by sirslurpee

Thanks a ton! I'm gonna try it tomarrow when I get a chance... I think I might try changing the muffling on the bass drum too... maybe take out that Rem-O and put a towel or maybe a pillow in it and tune it down a bit... I have another question too....
If I wanted to add tom/snare mics to my setup, how would I go about making sure everything is set up right?

yeah the bass doesn't need that much muffling..loosen the tuning and that'll be it like tourette said.

the boosting on the 5 and the 25 adds more highs...its very clicky..

experiment with it.

as for toms and snare...a sm57 on snare and u can have 57's on toms too if you want.

buy these rip offs 57's if you dont have the budget..they sound quite similar (if not...the same) as the real ones

http://www.speakerrepair.com/Merchan...AG+Accessories

[tourettes5139]

Did you mean at 5 Khz, and at 2.5 Khz??

[systmovadown]

Originally Posted by tourettes5139

Did you mean at 5 Khz, and at 2.5 Khz??

5k and 25 (using a 30 band eq)

[Chris Shaeffer]

25K?! Really?

That's 5K above what most healthy people can hear.

Or is that 25hz- really LOW?

That's why there is the confusion on the 25 number. 25K isn't really a useful frequency exceot in the most demanding recording setups.

Take care,
Chris

[PhilGood]

Originally Posted by Chris Shaeffer

25K?! Really?

That's 5K above what most healthy people can hear.

Or is that 25hz- really LOW?

That's why there is the confusion on the 25 number. 25K isn't really a useful frequency exceot in the most demanding recording setups.

Take care,
Chris

25hz isn't really audible either. That's in the sub frequency range. Elephants can hear down to 15hz. Humans can really only feel 25hz.

I think the question is 25 kilohertz or 25 hertz?

[systmovadown]

well actually anything 25> (above)

[sirslurpee]

lol I have some more cad mics.. I'm still working with the bass drum though, I tuned it down a little bit but it still sounds kind of dull acoustically so I think I am going to take the Rem-O out of there and throw a towel in it.

Funny story:
I was practicing earlier with my band, and there are 3 vocals.. I had only those 3 mics set up, and apparently one of them was so sensitive that it picked up my bass drum halfway across the room. The feedback from it was so weird, it was like, everytime I'd hit the kick, it would sound like a cowbell. Wierd as hell...

Just thought you guys might be interested in that, maybe for experimental purposes or something?

Anyway, I should have some new recordings up tomarrow, so check back...

[hotwatertim72]

I'm with the other guys on your bass sound, make sure you put the mic in, and closer to the beater, it makes a world of difference. Also, another trick is to use your kick mic combined with a 57 pointed where the beater strikes the head on the batter side, outside of your drum. If you can't afford the shure 57, get the gls-57 off of ebay, that what I did, and they sound exactly the same.

[sirslurpee]

holy crap. I just clicked the link... seriously. 79 bucks for 3 mics?! Seriously, I have an EV, and some Audio Technica mics lying around I can use. Also, I have 4 more mics from that CAD set that I can use for snare/toms or w/e. I'm just worried about trying to add so many mics and keep everything in phase...

[systmovadown]

well...that was my idea too. It's a never ending phase you know?

Once you get new equipment..and they keep on rushing in (over time), you'll start to forget about the older ones.

Kind of like going into a new school....you'll make new friends...and EVENTUALLY forget SOME or maybe ALL of your older friends.

I barely use my Shure Pg48's anymore.

[sirslurpee]

Yeah I forgot I have another set of CAD mics somewhere.. and a couple of Radio Shack mics.. I don't think they are the 'good' ones though.

Anyway, I'm up to using 7 mics and I played a little diddy on the kit: drumsample2

I played with the mix a little bit, but I think I need to turn the toms down a little, and I wish I could get more cymbals without the snare and bass drum being so present in the track but so far I think it's sounding 10000 times better than anything I could have recorded last week. Like I said in my first post, you guys here are f*cking amazing. Thanks so much!

[systmovadown]

WOW

that bass with the CAD?

U FUCKING KIDDING ME?

WELL I HAVE SHIT DRUms...so i cant TALK


it sounds killer bro

Toms are great..

How do you get it to sound that "lively" ?

my drum sounds are very dull...i guess its the small room

is your room big? treated?

-Mikhail

[sirslurpee]

haha thanks. I think it's actually the kit. They are top of the line peaveys. That bass drum sound is really EQ'd too. But I like it that way I still need to do some tweaking with it though.

Honestly, I think for CAD mics they are really good. Plus I have a really good reference site on learning mic techniques and recording/mixing/mastering techiniques

I think I am close to having the sound done though.. I'm still using the same OH placement, although I did place the kick mic more inside the drum and I'm using a snare and tom mics, also CAD mics though. Imagine what this kit would sound like with some better mics.... wow!

[sirslurpee]

oh p.s. the room is like 25x20 or such. weird angled ceilings, it's actually the top of a barn. There's carpet on the walls and angled parts of the ceilings, 1 flat wall. the rest of it is kind of exposed. It's weird.

[systmovadown]

goddamn it

im stuck in a stupid 11x11 room with fucking low ass 7ft high ceilings

I am going to cry. I have shit drums. I need money. And not only that...but I have some SHIT CYMBALS!

well I kinda like the 502 crash..

not so much the hats.

and a eww Camber 16 inch...
it sounds like a fucking top of a trash can...

[sirslurpee]

yeah.. my dad is a drummer so I am very VERY lucky to have some of the equipment that I have. The recording stuff is all mine though! muhuahaha.. I have an entire set of paiste 502s... hats, 16" crash, 18" crash, 12" splash, ride, and china. I love the way they sound. My dad plays Zildjian A series I think he has... not sure, his cymbals sound okay though, but he has like 3 crashes and a splash plus ride and hats and it's not enough variety for me. Don't you have a ton of mics? Maybe you can sell some and save up some money for a better kit or sell the one you have? I heard your recording with the broke snare that definately needs to be fixed or replaced. Although the rest of your kit doesn't sound bad at all... especially for being cheap!

[systmovadown]

its not the mics at all..


its the fucking instrument and the stupid room

ordering YEEE alot of THEEE foam by mail stuff.


yep yep

i have $500
im going to save up 500 more just to be on the safe side

I;m getting a job soon so I will be slowly getting money.

The plan was get a Pearl Master's Bass Drum, then a snare, then toms, then cymbs...

so it all works out just fine..
I don't want to wait till February or anything to get a full set..

[sirslurpee]

there's always Christmas

[systmovadown]

FUCK YEs...completely forgot about that one.

I guess I had the mentality of a non-religious person for a sec

[PhilGood]

I just noticed in the JPGs that you posted that you have the Rem-O foam muffler thingy's in your toms. I have one question.

Why???

Those things are horrible! Take them out and your toms will sound much better.

I've said this in many other posts: DON'T MUFFLE!!!
The only drum that should get any muffling is the kick, and even then, watch how much you use! If you have some ringing that is a problem, use a little tape (little) or the gel pads. Try not to deaden the sound.

Every pro drummer I have ever known will tell you exactly the same thing! It is NOT how to get a pro sound out of your drums. No high-end studio in the world would allow you to use them. They are a gimmick to make you think your toms will have that warm, fat sound. The truth is: It's the signal path that does that.

This test track has no muffling. Also has the GLS mic mentioned earlier.

http://www.monkeyworksinc.com/samples/testwsubkick.mp3