Guitar Clarity

[Scrubucket7]

I play in a punk band with two guitarist, drums and bass. The problem were having is that when both me and our other guitarist are playing, there isnt much tonal clarity. It sounds like alot of loud, and mush. Im playin a strat through a fender princeton 112, and the other guitarist is playin a telecaster through a marshal mg100. Please, any tips on how to improve the sound would be greatly appreciated.

[Hard2Hear]

Dont scoop the mids on the EQ. Both of you use the bridge pickup on your guitars and play with your pick hitting the strings closer to the bridge. Those will all make your sound more clear and cut better in the mix.

H2H

[Sirnothingness]

You're playing in a punk band and the guitars sound lound and mushy?


So what's the problem?


Seriously, maybe try different chord phrasings. Try different amp and effect settings. Maybe one of you could play lead while the other handles rhythm. Or one plays chords while the other plays licks. Aim the amps in different directions. I'm not sure that I even see a reason for two guitars in a punk band, but what do I know?

[TravisK]

don't forget that you are using two amps that aren't known for their distortion properties

[Armistice]

Make sure you're not using reverb at all, one of you turn down the distortion to a more chunky/bitey sound rather than all out fuzz, EQ the amps differently and consider having one of you use a humbucking guitar.

Sounds like you just have too much of too much. All these steps will un-mush the sound for you. Remember that what sounds great in your lounge room with just you playing alone often sounds crap in a band situation with bass and other instruments that share a similar frequency range - ie. another guitar.

Cheers

[AGCurry]

IMO the key to success with ANY group playing is to work out and plan distinct parts for each player on each musical piece. If one is strumming open chords, the other should be playing something rhythmically different, higher up the neck. If one has a distorted sound, the other should be clean. You get the idea...

[Zed10R]

Originally Posted by AGCurry

IMO the key to success with ANY group playing is to work out and plan distinct parts for each player on each musical piece. If one is strumming open chords, the other should be playing something rhythmically different, higher up the neck. If one has a distorted sound, the other should be clean. You get the idea...

Nah...I don't agree witht that. The quickest most effective think scrubucket7 and his guitar player buddy need to do is get some humbucking pickups first and foremost, then eventually get better amps. Good humbuckers alone will give him a MUCH more defined sound.

If each guitar by itself sounds clear and tight, then both together will sound clear and tight, IF they are played with precision. How you play also has a huge impact on how you sound.

[espskully]

Quit playing punk!

[(progger)]

may have a problem if the distortions sound too differnet? not really sure if this makes a huge inpact on sound but just throwing out some ideas

[seismetr0n]

i agree with armistice and zed10r.. you should
A. eq. both your amps differently- bring the mid up more on one than the other, or even have one of ya play with the bridge pup and one the neck.
B. get some tight and loud humbuckers... i played with a couple different single coils in my old guitar until i found a great humbucker (bridge slot) that sounded great for rhythm (arent there just too many consonants in that word) and lead.
now i play duel humbuckers in a different guitar..
you can check it out at schweinhunden.net
(nice plug)

[Dani Pace]

Two things come to mind, contrast and complement. If guitars sound similar you have no contrast and their sound will be mushy and muddy. The parts you are playing need to complement one another, NOT compeat. But on the other hand, punk sounds ragged and garbled to me so I really don't see that you should be having a problem.

[Hard2Hear]

Originally Posted by Zed10R

Good humbuckers alone will give him a MUCH more defined sound.

This just isnt true. Having owned nearly every guitar and amp imaginable, I can tell you nothing cuts through a mix like a Telecaster beidge pickup and a Fender Bassman. I can make your ears bleed with that.

Humbuckers always are more powerful, but rarely more clear than single coils. As long as theyr'e not cheapo ceramic single coils. Many humbuclers, especialy ceramics, are the muddiest pickups out there. Especially in the neck position.

H2H

[smtcharlie]

With the list of equipment here, I would have thought that any complaint would be in the "harsh" category, not the "mud" category. A strat and a tele? Yikes, add in a china cymbal, and say good bye to your high frequency hearing....

Kidding. I was in a band where we had a bass player, guitar player (me), and the other guitar player fight for volume all the time. It was a muddy mess most of the time. Just because the tone sounds good alone doesn't mean it fits with the band. Things sounded best when I backed way off the distortion.

So I agree with the above, try backing off the distortion on one guitar and see what that does.

And try not playing so loud. That mud could be your ears distorting! Easy to say, but as the example above proves, I don't take my own advice....

[Outlaws]

Roll off the distortion a little, and then a little more. Then roll off the bass a bit...on BOTH guitars.

Then let the bassist supply the bass.

And finally, put your amps next to each other so you don't have to tell earch other to turn it down all the time. When you get better at it you can start spreading them out a little.

[xotsx]

Ok, here are my points of advice to you. (if these have already been covered and i just missed them sorry and you RULE for having the same advice )

1. I've found it a good rule to set your amp up how you really like it to sound and then back the gain off a little more than you think you should. That can really clear up the tone of the individual guitars.

2. Once the guitars are laid down mess with even a hard pan left and right if guitars are playing the same thing and just kind of work you way back toward center.

3. Of course, EQ EQ EQ... Not too much overwhelming bass, more than likely a lot more mids than you are used to, that will clear them up too.

This has been one of my missions in recording too because we play heavy stuff with very crunchy heavy guitars. These things all seemed to work for me. Good luck!

[Codmate]

One of the guitarists should play with a clean sound if possible.
If you don't want to do this have one guitarist play all the chords one octave above the other guitarist - or at the very least use different voicings.

Making sure everything is nice and tight (i.e. in-time) is a good idea too. Play things without vocals - just with the two guitars on their own if need be. Make sure your arrangements actually work. So many bands thing that if they just hammer away at the chords without any sense of musicality then it will sound more 'raw' and 'punk'.

They couldn't be more wrong...

Many of the punk and new wave bands of the time featured some of the greatest musicians of the time. Just listen to The Jam and The Clash. Tight as hell.

[treymonfauntre]

these are alright results if this guy was playing in a classic rock band, but "licks" and different chord phrasings just aren't necessary in pop punk.

so, scrubucket, is this for recording or are you talking live? because if its for recording.. double track! pull the gain way down and layer 2 guitar tracks on each side. i always thought this would be so hard to do when i was preplanning it, but even on my first takes of each tracking stacked on top the sound quality was incredibly better. and of course little bass, lots of mids, blabla.
also, how nice of fenders do you have? i have a mexican strat with stock pickups and i don't think i'd dare play live with it in any type of full band stuff.. way too thin and harsh.

[cstockdale]

"my guitar sounds fuzzy? My GUITAR SOUNDS FUZZY? This is PUNK ROCK, you stupid git!"...

Billy Bragg to a heckler, Glastonbury Festival, 1997.

[-=¤willhaven¤=-]

Fact: Punk guitars don't have to sound like shit for the music to still be punk.

Refused comes to mind.

[Scrubucket7]

Thanks for the advice everyone. treymonfauntre, to answer your question...Its for live, well actually, just for our practices. Were not really looking for an old school, gritty sound like minor threat, or anything like that. Something more in your face aggressive sounding, like pipedown, action, leftover crack...that type of shit.

[Tele The Truth]

I'm suprised that nobody has touched on this yet, but are you and the other guitar player tight in what you play? I've played in quite a few bands with 2 guitarists, and we always went through all of the parts to make sure we were picking them the same. If you guys are strumming different rhythms on the same parts, that would definately make for a muddy and undefined sound. I would think that the tele/marshall and strat/fender amp setup should be a fine compliment. I do agree with evaluating the EQ of the amps and that turning down the overall volume might help, but I would look at technique first and foremost.