Monitors

[Gear_Junky]

Ok, well I've narrowed it down to a few. There's Event 20/20, which is $269 at zzounds and then I'll have to spend $200-300 for an amp. These are 50hz-20khz and have an 8" subwoofers. Also there are PS6 for about $599 with 45hz-20khz, but only 6.5" subwoofers. These are powered, so there's no need for an amp, though. Naturally, it seems that the unpowered 20/20 are a better choice (to me). If I decide to add a different monitors pair, I'll be able to use the same amp to a/b them. Are 20/20's a better monitor than the PS5 and PS6?

Also, I'm not sure which amp to get for them (if I get the 20/20). I already have a Samson S1000 amp, which is about 340Wt per side @ 8Ohms (or 500Wt @ 4ohm). This is more of a "live sound" amp and a salesman told me that even though it'll work, it won't sound "as clean" as a studio amp. Is that true? I could get one of the Samson Servo amps. Any advice and suggestions are apreciated. Thanks.

[Wide Awake]

When you buy active monitors you have the knowledge that they were engineered using the internal power amp. If you buy unpowered monitors you have no idea what power amp they were using to make them sound good. You could go to the Event website and see what they recommend. I like the idea of active monitors and I read that they far outsell passive systems now. I bought the PS6's.

[ffmada]

get event's tria
two 6.5" satelites(sp.) and a 8" sub, all POWERED
$449 from 8th street

I went through the same thing about a month ago. I figured that unpowered speakers that cost the same as powered one would sound better. I figured out that they possibly could, but only with an excellent amp that would cost more than the speakers. I went out and listened to many combinations and ended up with the tria. Go listen for yourself, though, as everyone will tell you

madfadder

[FBstdminime]

If you decide to go with the PS6's, you can them at zzounds.com for $459. Great price.

Eric

[england]

True, but ZZounds is out of the Ps6's for the next 8 weeks. Try Music123.com. They'll match that price.

[Gear_Junky]

Ok, thanks, guys.

But what if I already have an amp. You know, I mentioned that Samson s1000 that I have. Might it be, that I'm better off just getting the speakers?

Also, the Event Tria - the 2 speakers + subwoofer system. Wouldn't that tend to overemphasize bass? I really want accurate monitors, I already have a good listening speaker system (hi-fi home stereo).

[ffmada]

the tria's were bass heavy when I first got them, but I fixed it easily with the VLF control. It allows you to adjust the sensitivity of the sub seperate from the other speakers.

BTW . . . almost all monitors will seem to over emphasize bass in an improperly trapped room

madfadder

[c7sus]

Event Tria: YES! And $449US is a great price. Plenty of power, nice sweet spot.

[Gear_Junky]

Originally posted by ffmada
. . . almost all monitors will seem to over emphasize bass in an improperly trapped room

madfadder

Let's talk about properly trapping a room. How might I do that? Please, let's keep it practical, my basement shares the duties of a studio with a TV-room, so there's a sofa, a table, chairs, etc.

[JC Lives]

Hey Gear_Junky,

Check out the artical in October's Recording mag. They did a review on an entire package. It is called ASC MixStation Modular Acoustical Evironment. It looked pretty cool and got a good writeup. The only minor problem is that it costs 1500. There are other forms of bass trapping. They (don't know how "they" is) make things called bass traps. I'm sure you could find them on the net.

[Gear_Junky]

JC, thanks, but $1500 is out of the question. I was thinking more along the lines of stuffing pillows in the corners of the room or something like that

Practical advice, anyone?

[bvaleria]

Hmmm... to be honest - there is no practical (read *budget*) solution to acoustical treatment. Egg cartons, mattress foam, pillows, really don't do the trick - plus usually it looks pretty silly! Using these tricks tend to make the problems WORSE than leaving it alone in the first place....

You either pay the piper, or learn to translate the mixes in your environment as it is. BTW - if you can learn to translate mixes when monitoring on say, NS-10s, it should be a no-brainer to learn your room too!!!



Bruce Valeriani
Blue Bear Sound

[JC Lives]

From what I understand about bass traps, they are typically a column of foam that is on a stand. These are typically placed near the rear of the room away from the corners. The reason they are placed away from the walls is that the sound waves reflect off the wall and then are trapped in the foam columns. I am sure that there is a more scientific explanation but at least you should get the general idea.

Sorry if I was trying to spend your money for you. I keep forgetting that there are others like myself that can not just go out and buy anything we want. Why can't it all be free.

[JC Lives]

A couple of things that I left off. If you do get creative and make these out of pillows, you will need to experiment with placement to get the best results. Let me know if you try this and how it works. I may give it a try if it works.

[Pete Burak]

I printed out the Event products price list from ZZounds and brought it to my local Guitar Center store. They matched ZZounds price for a pair Event PS6's no questions asked. $459! BTW, ZZounds have the PS5's listed for $399.
I'm looking forward to hooking up the PS6's tonight.

[Gear_Junky]

Yes, I've done that before at Sam Ash, too. I'll also tell 'em that zzounds also ships for free (over $250) and charges no tax, so they better figure that in! Nothing like local convenience at the "online" price ;D

[Gear_Junky]

Well, I bought my 20/20 and they work great with my Samson s1000. That's a great amp!

It's a world of dif. compared to my home stereo system! I'm glad I went this route.


My woofers are more inches than your woofers

[Gear_Junky]

Bvaleria, you're talking about "translating a mix". Let me ask you: now that I have my mon-s, once I get a good sounding mix on them, do I just expect it to sound good on conventional "user" systems? Or should I mixdown first and then listen everywhere to see how it "translates"?

[CyanJaguar]

I have my ns10 ms on top of my Aiwa speakers, which have subwoofers. The only differecnce I notice when I check my mix on the home system is that they sound a bit duller.

On the other hand, if you listen to a mix on my friends Alesis M2's, they sound really good. On a home system, not as good as my mixes.

Just to let you know that I think those NS10ms translate very well indeed.

[John Sayers]

I was reading down and reading down and saying "buy the 20/20s and run them with the Samson" wheew!! You made it - good choice gear_junky

[bvaleria]

Originally posted by Gear_Junky
Bvaleria, you're talking about "translating a mix". Let me ask you: now that I have my mon-s, once I get a good sounding mix on them, do I just expect it to sound good on conventional "user" systems? Or should I mixdown first and then listen everywhere to see how it "translates"?

Translating a mix really isn't accomplished in a single step with only 1 pair of monitors. No matter whether you're using a $30000 pair or a $500 pair, you can't whip a mix up on them and have them translate automatically....

The first (and biggest) step is learning how your monitors sound. Listen, listen, listen to as much material (not your own) as you can to get a feel for what your monitors are doing to your sound. This is why it's possible to use NS-10s or even Auratones to do a mix on - after having learned your system - you get a feel for how much/little bass/treble/mids you need to be hearing on a given system.

The next step is to then take a mix you've done and play it in as many sources as you can - in the car, a boombox, a clock radio.. etc... different sounds/freqs will jump out at you in each case and you may decide that the bass is a little heavy (or not enough!), or the vocal needs to come up a bit in the chorus...

After that (yes, there's more!), you need to do a headphone check, and it's a good idea to do a mono-compatibility check in there at some point (A - it will point out phase anomalies if an element of your mix "disappears" in mono, and B - if you ever get radio/TV airplay, some of these media are still single-channel).

AND THEN - if after going thru this process, you decide to remix something.... you get to do it all over again!!! And people wonder why it takes SOOO LONG to make a record!!!



Bruce Valeriani
Blue Bear Sound

[Gear_Junky]

Thank you, Bruce, and thank you, John. The monitors do indeed sound clearer and crisper then the home stereo I have next to them.

Bruce, I checked my acoustic mix in mono today. On a good recording should I expect that nothing will "disappear" in mono, or should I just expect that nothing completely disappears? The first acoustic guitar part was tracked with 3 tracks - 1 mic in front (nt1), one overhead (akg c1000s about 3 feet up) and one condenser mic that's built-in inside the guitar). I pan the two hard left and right and the one from inside I just add a little bit of for presence. It doesn't seem to add much to the sound, though. Next time I'm just doing two. I can feel some sparkle disappearing in mono, but it's not like all guitars disappear. Can you elaborate on that?

[bvaleria]

You may lose *a bit* when switching to mono... the idea is to strike a balance between maintaining the stereo image (in stereo) while still have it sound acceptable in mono.

You essentially don't want the main mix elements to disappear - if you lose a bit on guitar or something - you have to decide whether that loss is critical enough to warrant adjusting the panning...

Bruce Valeriani
Blue Bear Sound

[Gear_Junky]

So, when I have all my pannings set and then I click the "Mono" button, that's a fair test?

[bvaleria]

Absolutely... but also, after switching to mono - turn off one of your monitors (left or right). Listening to mono in only one speaker *does* change your perception compared to listening to mono with BOTH speakers. (More of the "mono-ness" becomes apparent...)

Bruce