Mesa Boogie

[booyah14]

I must say that I have always loved the mesa boogie tone on guitars. Lately I know they have been blown up with a lot of bands that I do not like but I still would like to cop one. I would mostly want it for recording purposes and occasionally to jam around with. I know everyone sports the triple rectifier these days but that just seems like overkill for volume and what not. I mostly play metal with tons of chunky riffs and good amount of lead/solo work.

So my question is, would it be worth it to just get a single rectifier? It's basically just two channels, one that is clean and one that is overdriven? Just figured it would be cheaper and more what I need if I go this route.

Also have checked out the framus stuff as well but it is almost the same thing, looks like a little more than I need.

[ibanezrocks]

Look in to a combo if you want to be able to push the power tubes without ridiculous volume. A recto-verb should do the trick, more gain than you should ever want to use, 50 watts, 6l6 or El34 tubes, 2 channels, various modes in those channels, reverb.

[ggunn]

Originally Posted by booyah14

I must say that I have always loved the mesa boogie tone on guitars. Lately I know they have been blown up with a lot of bands that I do not like but I still would like to cop one. I would mostly want it for recording purposes and occasionally to jam around with. I know everyone sports the triple rectifier these days but that just seems like overkill for volume and what not. I mostly play metal with tons of chunky riffs and good amount of lead/solo work.

So my question is, would it be worth it to just get a single rectifier? It's basically just two channels, one that is clean and one that is overdriven? Just figured it would be cheaper and more what I need if I go this route.

Also have checked out the framus stuff as well but it is almost the same thing, looks like a little more than I need.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong (like I have to ask, eh?), but my understanding is that double and triple rectifier designs simply wire up two or three rectifiers in parallel in the power supply to fight high voltage sag on the plates of the tubes. It's not a volume thing so much as a tone thing.

[rockcamaro97]

What he said... I had a friend that bought a dual rec, and he never could get the volume up loud enough in small clubs, practice areas, and for recording to push the tubes to get it soundin good! They are inherently LOUD. Id reccomend one of the combo amps definatly over the head with a 4x10 cab.

Matt

[prestomation]

Originally Posted by ggunn

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong (like I have to ask, eh?), but my understanding is that double and triple rectifier designs simply wire up two or three rectifiers in parallel in the power supply to fight high voltage sag on the plates of the tubes. It's not a volume thing so much as a tone thing.

The names are talking about rectifiers and all that, but the three models have wattage differences. 50w, 100w, and 150w for the Single/Dual/Triple IIRC

Of course, i could be completely wrong too.

[punkin]

Single Recto=50 watts with solid state power supply rectifiers only and two channels

Dual Recto=100 watts with solid state and tube rectifiers and three channels

Triple Recto=150 watts with solid state and tube recifiers and three channels

Think twice before you go for the dual or the triple...seriously! Play it before you buy...these things are seriously loud for a practice/recording only situation. Even the 50 will blow you out of your bedroom/recording studio.

[ewegogetemtiger]

feel free to ignore my suggestion ... but...

think about the old Boogie Studio Pre. You can mix and match the power amp section/cab to suit the situation. Flexibility for recording and live playing...low cost...Boogie sound...it is the opinion of many, many players that the Stu Pre had the *best* lead tone of any Boogie ever made...a real cult classic by this point.

But if I had that kind of money for an amp I'd be thinking about a Bogner. I've had Boogie amps (still have my Stu Pre and love it) but you have to crank most of their amps to the sky to get a great sound because, and I don't think this is any big secret, they just don't use high quality components where you need them for low volume playing. I personally don't want to have to crank a 50-100 watt amp to get a good sound. Most tube amps sound good to great when you dime them...only a handful sound good to great at apartment/house-approved levels as well and that's because they are using seriously high quality, audiophile components. Old Naylor amps were like that; at any volume they sounded cranked and that's why they're highly sought after today... I have an 80watt 1x12 Bogner Shiva combo with EL34s and I can get amazing sounds at any level and that's the only amp I've had that is capable of doing so. A big Boogie amp just makes little sense to me YMMV

[Outlaws]

Originally Posted by punkin

Single Recto=50 watts with solid state power supply rectifiers only and two channels

Dual Recto=100 watts with solid state and tube rectifiers and three channels

Triple Recto=150 watts with solid state and tube recifiers and three channels.

Originally Posted by ggun

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong (like I have to ask, eh?), but my understanding is that double and triple rectifier designs simply wire up two or three rectifiers in parallel in the power supply to fight high voltage sag on the plates of the tubes. It's not a volume thing so much as a tone thing.

Correct, except to add that there are three recifier tubes in the Triple, two in the Dual, and I was under the assumtion that the Single had one, and non had a solid state option except maybe the Single, but I could be wrong there. The Three tube rectifier in the Triple would be pretty damn close to have the punch of solidstate.

Also, While imo there is zero noticable volume difference between 50 and 100 watts....and maybe a small amount between 50 and 150, there is going to be a HUGE difference in clean headroom. That should definately be taken into account for. My friend had a Single Recifier and it didn't have enough clean head room for his Epi LesPaul. It was like a blues break up, but no clean.

[espskully]

I have the Rectoverb head - which is a single rectifier with reverb. I love it - and it's PLENTY loud. IMHO - a triple is overkill. So is a dual, unless you're playing big shows.

The Rectoverb has a great clean sound too - nice and warm and round. It's nice to have the 'verb on there. I find just the regular single a little dry. I run the head thru a Rectifier 2x12 closed back cab. It's really loud.

[-=¤willhaven¤=-]

Actually, the triple rec isn't 150w. My father and I measured mine and it was somewhere between 125 and 130w.

What you should get depends on what kind of sound you are going for. I don't particularly like the sound of output tube distortion, so I went with a Triple.

Triple recs aren't a ton louder than a Dual (I think double wattage only gives you another 3db of sound volume IIRC), they just seem to have more headroom before they start to mush out on you.

[punkin]

Power Out = I (current) x E (Voltage)
I = E/R (resistance)

I can feel the rolling eyes already

Your measured power out is going to be dependant upon the supply voltages through out the amp and the load (speaker or test load). And since speaker coils are frequency reactive transducers and every one is a little different and geets well...they play all sorts of different sounds testing this could be tricky. To make measurements even more difficult to make, many manufacturers write these specs using a single test tone or a series of test variations which are pretty damn tough to duplicate except in controlled environments with calibrated test equipment and test jigs. A single frequency pure sign wave input might make up for the difference from what you measured and their published spec but someone call me a doctor if we gotta listen to a 150 watt 1kHz tone through a Vintage 30 speaker .

Bottom line, I'm not sure how you made your measurements nor do I claim to know how Mesa developed thier specs but I'm willing to bet that Mesa could post a situational test where their product meets their claims which would "technically" agree with the original Watt's Law. It would be very interesting to see how they come up with this number and compare it to how other manufacturers do the same. Many industries...not just in amp land, do the manufacturer's of similar equipment make it so hard to get to the apples to apples for us consumers. I really hate that!

I've got a tripple...and oh hell!...it's too loud...I recently aquired a Univalve which yes, it's a completely different animal but still very tasty...still plenty of shout for the studio at 15 watts. Like several before have already suggested one way or another...check into a smaller combo but definitely test drive before you buy. If sagging power supply sound is what you're after, keep looking, there are other makers of smallish amps with tube rectifier power supplies out there.

You've got the 3 dB power doubles thing spot on...from this you gather that it's a non-linear curve which explains why a 15 watt amp running at full tilt with a 1x12 speaker is still way too loud to play in an appartment at 2 A.M. which also would support the idea that the difference between 130 to 150 watts is really pretty negligable...it would be tough to hear if at all possible the difference especially if it were a 1kHz tone (thanks to Fletcher and Munson those guys spoiled it for everyone) or better yet, my all favorite tri-tone interval . Did I mention that double stops and tri-tones are my big eared beagle's favorite sounds? He can nearly turn his head all the way around when he hears them. What a freaky animal...anyways...peace, love and all that happiness shit.

[punkin]

Originally Posted by booyah14

I must say that I have always loved the mesa boogie tone on guitars. Lately I know they have been blown up with a lot of bands that I do not like but I still would like to cop one. I would mostly want it for recording purposes and occasionally to jam around with. I know everyone sports the triple rectifier these days but that just seems like overkill for volume and what not. I mostly play metal with tons of chunky riffs and good amount of lead/solo work.

So my question is, would it be worth it to just get a single rectifier? It's basically just two channels, one that is clean and one that is overdriven? Just figured it would be cheaper and more what I need if I go this route.

Also have checked out the framus stuff as well but it is almost the same thing, looks like a little more than I need.

One more thing...when you say you "love the mesa boogie tone", you might want to look into exactly what the set up is in what you like for each sound. These things are very tunable in that you can squeeze all sorts of sounds out of them. The duals and triples even more so since they have the switchable tube/diode rectifier power supply (I mentioned the sagging power supply sound). Seriously play some amps before you buy. You might be able to get "your sound" from a completely different product line and save some dough. For a metal sound, I usually set my Mesa to the diode rectifier otherwise the sound gets a little mushy (ala single but lower power). One good thing about getting a triple recto amp is that the resale value is pretty good...it's hard to find a nice (NICE) used triple for less than 1k on ebay.

[bleyrad]

Check out the Boogie MK I reissue head! It doesn't have the gobs of gain of the rectifiers, but it is capabale of a lot if you push it in channel 1... does everything from ultra-clean to beautiful crunch to bluesy cream to a nice overdrive. Just not fuzz.
IMO it has one of the best overall tones of any guitar head I've heard. It sounds good quiet, too. It has a 60W mode and a 100W mode.

[usekgb]

I've had a Dual Recto for a 7 or 8 years now, and it is a seriously LOUD amp. There are a couple tricks you can do to get tone at lower volumes, but it's still loud. First, remove the inner two or outer two power tubes from the amp. This will cut the power in half. Don't worry, this won't hurt the amp. Just remember to alternate which tubes you take out so that the tubes don't wear out unevenly. Secondly, on the older Dual Recto's, you caan put a patch cable between the effects send and the effects return and use the black knob as a master volume. This allows you to turn up the masters on the individual channels while still keeping the overall volume down. I know this doesn't give you the same type of overdrive as a Mesa on 10, but it still sounds pretty good.

Cheers,
Zach

[punkin]

Good call! I forgot about that...also, if you gotta have one of these beasties, you can get a hot plate or powerbrake or what ever...I'm not a big fan of these as they tend to color the sound. I did this for quite a while as the exception not the rule when I used to play live. Now that I don't gig as much, I prefer a quieter amp that I can drive hard without sacrificing tonal quality.

[booyah14]

Ok I should clarify that I don't need it to rip it at 2343432342 decibels. I just need something that I can crank up and get a really heavy tone to play a lot of heavy breakdown stuff and still have the clarity to rip the lead lines and dual solos and all of that fun stuff.

By saying I like the Mesa tone, I just think it's really easy to hear one on a CD if they played through it. Regardless of the setting, it really does just have that sound that I like. I've heard the combo mesa stuff can get pretty nice as well but I haven't heard one live yet. And don't worry, definitely am not going to jump and buy one simply because it's the hot item at the moment. Just want to narrow the choices down to say 5 then check them all out a few times before I make my decision.

Now a question about the mesa pre amp. I haven't really seen too much on this, would I just run it through that straight to the mixer or whatnot?

The reissue of the boogie mk is something I haven't even heard of to be honest. Definitely wouldn't mind checking it out, but any other info or sound clips would be great. You would recommend this for a really heavy band?

And lastly, taking the power tubes out of any head, would you still get most of the distortion and heaviness just at a lower volume or would you really lose some of the pull of the tubes then?

Thanks for all the info guys and please feel free to give any other suggestions, recommendations, or advice.

[Toker41]

I have a Mesa Preamp, Mesa Dual Recto, and have owned a Mesa 50 Cal. I have played and recorded with several other Mesa's as well.
The Mesa preamp was used by Kurt Cobain, and it's all over the early Matallica stuff.
I have found that the Mesa Preamp sounds best ( and I know some are going to argue this) when I plugged the out from that into the RETURN of the effects loop of a Marshall JCM800 50 watt head into a Boogie 4/12 cab. Plugging into the effects return on the Marshall head bypasses the preamp section of the Marshall and uses only the power amp section of the amp. The only knob that will work on the Marshall will be the PRESENCE, which you will want. I tried using it with different Power amps (Mesa 50/50, Marshall 9005), and they just never seem to sound right. Forget about the direct out recording, it sucks, but thru an amp, this is one of my favorites, and I will never part with it.

The dual recto is my recommendation. A newer one with the 3 channels. The 2 channel sounds alot like the Mesa Preamp (which is modeled after the MK III) It has one of the best clean channel I have ever heard on an amp, and the 3rd channel gain through the roof and will give you more than enough "chunk" without being overly "dirty". It is a loud amp, but I wouldn't say it's overly loud. Mesa's have a "sweet" spot on the volume where the balls kick in. On the Dual Recto, it seems to be at about 3.

The Recto verb is also a nice amp, and comes in a combo (although I don't believe they are producing it anymore). I have been thinking about one of them since I tried it about 3 years ago. Beautiful clean, and plenty of gain, in 2 channels. You're not going to notice the volume difference between the 50 and 100 watt, except that the 100 watt will be a bit louder in the "sweet" spot. You will also notice that Boogies are not Marshall....they don't have to be on 10 to sound good.

[ibanezrocks]

Originally Posted by Toker41

The Recto verb is also a nice amp, and comes in a combo (although I don't believe they are producing it anymore).

They stopped making the rectoverb combo?! I was hoping to get one of those some day.

[Sonixx]

Originally Posted by booyah14

Also have checked out the framus stuff as well but it is almost the same thing, looks like a little more than I need.

Which Framus have you considered?

I've got a DR Solo 3ch and a Cobra. I don't gig right now, but I'd take either out.

I always find my DR fun to play and I do like the Rectifier tone. I probably play it more than any amp I own.

The Cobra has a lot of clarity, a great clean and is kind-of a cross between a 5150 and a rectifier. The Framus is probably going to cost a bit more. Also, my Cobra is the more versatile of the two.

[Toker41]

Originally Posted by ibanezrocks

They stopped making the rectoverb combo?! I was hoping to get one of those some day.

You can still pick one up on Ebay for under $1200.

[booyah14]

Thanks for the responses guys, very helpful. The info on the mesa preamp is definitely want I wanted to know how to do. So basically you would just get that if you had another amp, or at least one of the options would be to do that. Will definitely check out all of my options once I look this up a little more.

I want to check out some of the Framus stuff because i absolutely love their live sound. Seen a good amount of them lately from heavy bands and have always loved what was coming out of them. The cobra is mostly what I have seen at live shows, and I remember unearth having a really chunky heavy tone from them so definitely need to check them out somemore.

And Toker, thanks about the volume info, that is really good to know since I want whatever amp I choose to be a solid recording amp. Thanks man.

[punkin]

One other "new comer" at the GC you might look at...the reviews are a little mixed but, I had a chance to play one for a little while and it pulled off a convincing Mesa sound was the B-52 line. A way cheaper 3 channel tube unit with valve rectifier. It comes in 60 watts and 100 watts, effects loop, headphone and line-out...might be worth a look.

Best luck

[foo]

If you don't have the opportunity to record with mics at 'gig volume', you might want to consider a Mk IV.
Use the record out straight into the recorder - works great.

. . . and a Mk IV is also a very versatile amp for gigging, too. Great range of tones and it will happily take your head off if volume is your thing.

[booyah14]

Thanks for the suggestions guys, and yes if I don't have to record at gig volume that would be great. Any other info would rule.

[TravisK]

Power attenuators are definitely a help in that situation, but as said they can color the sound sometimes. But check into getting if you want a head that can be used live, and also when in the studio.

We record with a Mesa Dual Rect. and a Marshall JCM 900. I leave the marshall on 50watts (though it's 100) and it gets much meatier, but less gainy tone that the mesa at the same level.

It all depends on how you push the speakers too. With a power attenuator, you'll not be driving the cab as hard, thus losing some of the natural sound that the speakers get when driven properly.

I personally like the sound of a single rectifier as opposed to a dual. if you need that extra gain, i always have an EQ pedal sittin in front of my marshall and have it EQed for a treble boost on solos. Honestly, other than solos, do you need three channels?

THe only other thing,a nd it's been said, tat extra 50 watts gives you a whole whopping 3dB of sound. Not much at all.

Hope i've helped out and not confused you, i'm bad to explain myself poorly!!