Kick Drum Beater Issues

[Scottgman]

I've got 8 inputs to work with and here's how I've been approaching mic'ing up drums:

2 OHs
1 Snare
1 Kick drum
1 Kick drum beater
1 Shared Small/Mid tom (mic'd in between)
1 Low tom
1 Room Mic

I usually put a SM57 on the beater. The problem is that it sounds like poo and I feel like I'm wasting an input. I want the beater mic so I can get more click out of the kick. But the drummer and I were doing some critical listening last weekend comparing pres/mics/placement on the beater and frankly none of it sounded very good to me. Everything we tried sounded warm/muddy rather than bright/clicky. Then it occurred to me that I really don't know what I'm doing when it comes to mic'ing/mixing the kick beater (or anything else for that matter... lol!)

Would I be better off using that input for a dedicated tom mic and just use EQ to get "click" out of the kick? Maybe I should be using a different mic (e.g., SD condenser)? Should I be doing some serious EQ work to get what I want out of the beater mic? If so, what frequency range should I focus on (my guess is between 1k and 5k)? It also just occurred to me that maybe we should try a different beater. Right now he's got one of those felt pad beaters on the kick.

So many questions... lol. What do you do about the kick beater? Mic it or not? If you do mic it... what do you use (mic and pre) and what processing do you do when mixing?

Cheers!

[Robert D]

I usually stay away from drum micing questions, but this one begs the question: are you trying to capture a sound that's not there in the first place? I think you hit the beater on the head already.....try a hard beater.

-RD

[AGCurry]

Well, what kind of beater are you using? Is it wood or hard plastic? If not, maybe the answer to your quest is to try a harder beater.

[Exocaster]

The felt beater isn't going to give you the click you're looking for on the kick. Try hard plastic or wood.

As far as micing is concerned, you don't necessarily need to mic the beater side to get high end from the kick. What kick mic are you using? Something with naturally hyped highs like an Audix D6 or AKG D112 will go a long ways in getting you there. Try adding the additional kick mic on the resonant side rather than the beater side and see if that gets you anywhere. Get the mids and highs from the 57 and the lows from the mic inside the kick. You might wind up in a situation where each of the mics sounds like crap on its own, but they're great combined in the mix.

Check out the kick sample from http://andysneap.com/downloads/drum%20samples/ . It's an Audix D6 inside the kick and a Yamaha SubKick out front. Nothing on the beater side, but plenty of click regardless. Granted, it's already been EQed.

I'm not guaranteeing any of these will get the results you're looking for. Adjusting mic placement and EQ is probably the simplest route there.

[TripleM]

One trick I've read about and used (with moderate success) is to tape a driver's license or credit card to the spot on the kick drum skin where the beater strikes. It produces more of a clicky sound to begin with. Then you could free up your channel.

A similar approach that I've read about but haven't done is to tape a quarter to the beater head with electricians tape. It produces a similar effect.

Neither of these may work, but they might be worth a try. Combined with a moderate EQ boost somewhere around 5K this could do the trick.

[Scottgman]

Thanks for the replies.

The mic I'm using inside the kick is a Beta52.

So what are the negatives to using a hard beater? Are they more likely to bust a hole in the head? Do they wear out the head faster? Is it just a different sound?

Yeah, I think I'm trying to get something that's not there already. I mean, without EQ, the tracks we've recorded with the Beta52 don't really have any "click" in them.

I'm starting to get the impression that at least some of you don't bother with mic'ing the beater.

[jonnyc]

I get the clicky sound with my audix d6(which is known for doing this) and eq boosting. I usually boost the highs and lows and cut the mids and i get a great death metal click/boom sound that most of the drummers i've had in love. Use a hard plastic beater and if you're affraid it'll go thru the head then get a pad for it.

[RAMI]

Others already have what may be your answer. If there's no click in your sound to begin with, a mic won't amplify what's not already there. Have you tried not using a mic on the beater side at all? Personally, I bet you'd get just as good an overall drum recording with just 4 mics if your drums were well tunes and the mics were wll placed, but that's just my opinion.

[Ronan]

Switch to a hard beater or try duct taping a silver dollar on the head where the beater hits it.

I have not used a beater mic on any of the last 100 drum sets I have miced in the studio.

when you EQ the kick to get more attack try cutting around 500HZ and boosting around 4k and a little bit around 10k, adjust to taste of coure in amount and frequecies.

The Beta52 is a awesome kick mic.

[Scottgman]

Originally Posted by Ronan

I have not used a beater mic on any of the last 100 drum sets I have miced in the studio.

Thanks Ronan... that means alot coming from you.

OK, we are definitely going to try a harder beater and see what happens. I'll use the EQ suggestions you gave also.

[Ronan]

One last thing. If you are going for a punchy kick sound make sure that you have the inside of the kick stuffed with a pillow or the like.

[Farview]

I think we are all assuming that you have a hole in the front head and you are placing the mic inside the drum. If you have no hole in the head, you will never get a clicky sound.

[maestro_dmc]

Listen to the drum in the room. Whenever I've gotten a recorded kick sound that I liked and had "click", it was there before we put the mic in.

Experiment with:
The beater head itself (we get a great sound from an Aquarian Super Kick)
The tension on the beater head compared to the front head.
The size or lack of a hole in the front head.
One of those "falam" discs stuck where the beater hits.
A wooden beater, or even plastic one.( definately want a disc in place or a dual ply head for these, yes you can go through quicker)
A different size kick.


When I started out recording, and even before I discovered this Forum, I thought everything was done with EQ, or "in the box" to get the sounds. So now I look for the sounds before recording, instead of trying to create what isn't there.

If you still want to use an extra mic to pick up click and not the lows, try and pick up one of these . My no longer so secret weapon for kick drum. I've seen them new for around $50, check out the freq curve on the top end. Nigh indestructable too.

[Scottgman]

Originally Posted by Ronan

One last thing. If you are going for a punchy kick sound make sure that you have the inside of the kick stuffed with a pillow or the like.

Yeah thanks... that one I figured out a while back. If you don't put something in there you get that "slapping a basketball" kind of sound... which is definitely not the sound I want!

Originally Posted by Farview

I think we are all assuming that you have a hole in the front head and you are placing the mic inside the drum. If you have no hole in the head, you will never get a clicky sound.

Yes, hole in front head with Beta52 inserted in kick drum.

Originally Posted by maestro_dmc

Listen to the drum in the room. Whenever I've gotten a recorded kick sound that I liked and had "click", it was there before we put the mic in.

Thanks man. This is definitely the problem... the click isn't there in the room. This thread has been one of those "slap yourself in the forehead" moments for me. Of course it's the beater we are using-- that's why even with a mic on the beater I still wasn't getting a good click sound.

We are going to experiment some more on Saturday. But at this point I'm sure the beater is the problem and so I'm expecting much better results. I may post a before/after clip of the kick for shits and giggles.

Thanks for everyone's help!