Need preamp to complement my Mbox

[anton]

Hi,

I have an Mbox, a pair of MXL 603's, and a pair of RP5's as monitors. I have primarily trying to record solo instrumental fingerstyle guitar. My problem seems to be that i can never get a strong enough signal into Pro Tools. I have a pretty light touch on the instrument. I have to crank up the pre's on the Mbox to really get a decently strong signal. Editing is also hard because the wave form is so small. Would another mic preamp allow me to get a hotter signal into Pro Tools? If so, what do you guys suggest? I was reading about the DMP3 just because i am on a budget, but perhaps i would be better off saving for a Presonus MP20, or a RNP.


thanks


anton

[xstatic]

What are your peak levels when you record tracks? It is important to remember that most manufacturers reccomedn an average inout level of about -15db when recording digitally. You should be ables to either normalize some files in Pro Tools or change the view size ratio to enlarge the visible wave form for editing purposes.

[Big Kenny]

I'll compliment your Mbox.... "nice color"

[anton]

I will look at the levels when i get back from vacation. How would i determine the peak levels? Just look at the wav form and see the highest that it goes? Or is there a specific way to do it?


thanks


anton

[xstatic]

Just watch your meters on the channels. It should keep track of the highest signal level. If it is between -9 and -3 than your levels are just fine.

[Rodger Hartlett]

if you still need the extra gain you should buy an RNP.

[Chris Shaeffer]

Ditto on the RNP vote.

I'll have to see what the 603 is like with the mBox. I don't believe I've ever used mine together. I'll see if I can duplicate the problem...

First things first... how do you have the mics placed? Can you get them closer to the guitar and still get a good sound?

Also, do you have the original Mbox? It has inserts. You could save a little money (but lose out on a nice pre) and insert an RNC to crank up the gain a bit. Then you can set the RNC as a peak limiter to keep your input levels from clipping the convertors.

Take care,
Chris

[Joel Hamilton]

You can shift click the volume window in PT and it will tell you the peak level, then click again and you get the frame offset (latency report).

Get close to the mic, get a pre, get a hotter, better mic.... You need to figure out what works best for you in this sort of situation. it is why I wound up with a bunch of mics and pre's over the years: to accommodate many different styles coming into my scope of responsibility...

[anton]

my mics are about 15" away, with one at the 12th fret and another off the lower bout.

Didnt have any luck figuring out the max volume on the track. I tried shift clicking on the volume window but all i could do was adjust the volume.

I will say the distance between the peaks and valleys of the wave for is not that great. In the Edit window in Pro Tools to the right of button that shows the inputs is that verticle scale where the wave form is centered at zero and then the wav extends in both positive and negative direction. In my recording it does not go past positive or negative one.


thanks


anton

[something cool]

Originally Posted by Joel Hamilton

You can shift click the volume window in PT and it will tell you the peak level, then click again and you get the frame offset (latency report).

I think it's Ctrl-click (or Cmnd-click), but yeah what he said

[anton]

Is the RNP that big a step up from the DMP3? I am on a budget, but if its worth it, i should probably just wait and save up for an RNP.

[xstatic]

I wouldn't call it a step up at all, just a little different.

[anton]

When i Ctrl Click on the volume window it switches and says peak negative infinity except with the infinity symbol.

Not sure what this means. Perhaps i should take a screen shot and post it.



anton

[anton]

Here is a small recorded example and a screen shot of the session. I used a single MXL 603 pointed at the neck body joint of my guitar about a foot away. I turned up the gain on my Mbox pre to 3/4 the way full.

As you all can see, the wav form in pro tools is very small, even though it is set to normal size. When i crank up the gain more the wav is much bigger, but it clips in alot of spots.

I am still pretty new to home recording, and this one was made in my bedroom in the same room as my computer. I know extraneous noises can be eliminated by going into a different room than my pc. My main problem is the track does not sound clear and crisp, it sounds like it has a film plastered over it, if that makes sense.

I dont expect you guys to give me some magic solution or anything, as i know there are multiple variables involved. I guess i was just hoping i would get better quality. Perhaps i need more sensitive mics. My buddy has an Earthworks SRO going into a Digitube Preamp and straight into some sort of cd burner. I was very impressed with quality he got, considering that is budget gear is as well. I figure the pre's in the Mbox have to at least be as good as a Digitube.

Here are the links to the pic of the recording session and the mp3.

http://www.antonemery.com/pro.jpg

http://www.antonemery.com/inion.mp3


thanks


anton

[bennychico11]

the levels shouldn't be that low.
first i'm gonna ask a rudimentary question...but some people don't understand this....are you plugging the microphone in the pre via XLR?? Or 1/4"?

I think the reason the peak meter said negative infinity is because you weren't playing any audio at the time you checked it....hence why your peaks are negative infinity.
Although, it doesn't matter...i can see from the picture that it's really quiet.

Have you tried the other preamp on the box?

BTW, to increase the wave form view you can press on the little up and down arrows right above that tiny circle #2 next to your edit modes.

[anton]

Its plugged in via XLR. You are right, when i checked the peak level i was not playing any audio. Right now the wav size is at normal. It gets bigger if i crank the pre on the mbox almost to full, but then the signal is to strong and it clips.

I have tried both pre's. Perhaps the MXL 603 is not that great for acoustic fingerstyle, or i need to add another pre to my signal chain.



anton

[tdukex]

Originally Posted by anton

Its plugged in via XLR. You are right, when i checked the peak level i was not playing any audio. Right now the wav size is at normal. It gets bigger if i crank the pre on the mbox almost to full, but then the signal is to strong and it clips.

I have tried both pre's. Perhaps the MXL 603 is not that great for acoustic fingerstyle, or i need to add another pre to my signal chain.

anton

The MXL 603s is a fantastic fingerstyle mic IMO. I get great sounds out of mine through a DMP3. Have you tried a different mic cable? You shouldn't be having any level problems with that equipment.

[famous beagle]

I don't know what the level problems could be, but other than the fact that it's quiet, I think you're getting a great tone.

The piece was nice too, although I had trouble following the rhythm.

[Pinachi]

Are you sure the fanthom power is on?Are you sure you are set on the michrophone? If so then you might be having problems with cables.
Check the analog inputs in the software to make sure they are analog.


BTW its a problem, and preamp is not going to fix it,you have to fix the problem first..Because theres no way that it supposed to sound like that.

[anton]

the inputs are set to analog in pro tools. If you guys want i can zip up the whole session and make it available for download. It occured to me that i could have had the pre's set to line input on the mbox, but i am pretty sure they were set to mic. i will have to check that out tomorrow.

other than that i dont know what else to do. i dont expect pro quality, but i want something better than this. The cables are good. one is brand new. I will experiment some more tomorrow. Let me know if anyone wants the entire PT session.


anton

[Pinachi]

Originally Posted by anton

It occured to me that i could have had the pre's set to line input on the mbox, but i am pretty sure they were set to mic. i will have to check that out tomorrow.anton

Once you restart your computer the pre's automaticaly go to line input,so you have to change them everytime you reboot.

Let us know.

[anton]

In contrast check a recording a buddy of mine did at his place. Guitar is a Larrivee L-03R. Earthworks TC20, Presonus Digitube into some sort of direct to cd recorder. This more of the sound i was hoping to achieve, clear and crisp, sounds like you are there. My recording sounds like its surrounded by plastic wrap.

http://www.antonemery.com/3.mp3



anton

[anton]

Another thing that crossed my mind is that i am not using the original usb cable that came with the Mbox. I think its somewhere else or i may have lost it. I am just using a basic usb cable, but it does not have cylindrical converter thing on it, and the original cable did. Dont know if that makes a difference.



anton

[anton]

Did some more experimenting today. I just cant get a good sound. I will post some more mp3's later. It seems to be when i get a strong enough signal into PT then the bass is strong, as i have a mini jumbo guitar. So when i back off from the mic so its about a foot and a half away then the signal is to weak, like at -25db, according to PT. I have the mic pointed at about 10th fret, well away from the soundhole.


anton

[sdelsolray]

The mBox preamps have a maximum of 50 dB of gain. That much might be needed depending on mic sensitivity, mic placement and your playing style (which you mentioned as soft fngerstyle).

My guess is you need close to 50 dB of gain (maye a bit more) to get what you want. The MBox pres don't have enough gain. A new pre with higher gain would certainly fix things.