Mackie Onyx 1640 or Soundcraft M12 or Allen & heath MixWizard...

[bigwillz24]

I need help deciding on which of these mixers I should buy...

So I'm putting up a poll.

I also would like pros and cons of these mixers from the folks that actually have them.

thanks

[SamIam89]

I said the onyx for several reasons:

Mackie ruggedability
meter bridge on every channel****
4 subgroups****
future firewire expandability

The only thing that the other two really have going is 100mm faders.

Just my thoughts.

[deepwater]

The pres on the Soundcraft M series are far better then the Mackie Onyx. I also like the A&H

[therage!]

Originally Posted by SamIam89

I said the onyx for several reasons:
The only thing that the other two really have going is 100mm faders.

The A&H places each channel on it's own circuit board. Think about that for a minute. You ever have a problem with "one" channel and you can replace just that channel's board. Nice design there. The A&H has switchable pre/post fader direct outs.

I would go and download the manuals on these units and read every page before making a decision. The Mackie firewire option is a nice idea but it's converters are not up to something like a Delta 1010, EMU or the Mackie 400F.

[mshilarious]

Originally Posted by therage!

The A&H places each channel on it's own circuit board. Think about that for a minute. You ever have a problem with "one" channel and you can replace just that channel's board. Nice design there. The A&H has switchable pre/post fader direct outs.

There's a few other internal switching options on the A&H, plus the boards are easy to mod, easy to service. Has a well regarded EQ section too.

I love mine

[bcains]

Havent owned any of the above boards, but have tried out the Mackie & A&H

MixWizard:
Very versatile 4-band EQ which i find alot better than the mackies, has six separate sends.
As mentioned each channel has its own circuit board. Also has internal effects processor but they are pretty disappointing.
I'm unsure on this but i heard the h/p and monitor outputs use same level control?

IMO, most recent mixers from Soundcraft, A&H, Mackie, have completely usable preamps
and will probably not be your weakest link in the chain.

I'll also mention that Mackie makes their signal to noise specs look better by lowering the headroom of the console.

[xstatic]

Really all three are pretty solid starter mixers. The Allen Heath to me will have the "warmest" or "more colored" sound to me. The Mackie will be the most transparent (and least noise), and the Soundcraft falls nicely in between. As far as the Soundcraft preamps sounding much better than the Mackies, I find that to be pretty off base. Maybe compared to the VLZ series crap, but the Onyx is really a completely different sound than all other Mackie's. The EQ is also much nicer on the Onyx series than the VLZ's, and it also seems that they have finally addressed the channel crosstalk issue and clipping problems. AS far as I am concerned, no one of these consoles is really that much better than any others, but each has a little different of a layout and features.

For my style of mixing, I would tend to gravitate to the Allen Heath First, and actually the Mackie second, and the Soundcraft third, but I wouldn't be to worried which one out of the three that I had to use. As far as the internal FX on the Mix Wiz, they are pretty useless as far as I am concerned unless you patch it to your PC and use the FX editor. At that point they get a little nicer, but not a whole lot. Mackie does offer firewire options, but they chose an I/O implementation that I would not care for, so I personally would not factor that into my decision. If however the converters are the same as they use in their hard disc converters, I would say they are MUCH nicer than those in an M-Audio soundcard.

In the end all three mixers offer a nice balance between features, sound quality and price and if that is the kind of mixer you are going for, you can't really go wrong with any of them.

[noisedude]

If I could only have one, it'd be the A+H. But it depends what I was buying it for. If I was only doing recording, and mixing in the box, I'd get one of the rack firewire-equipped Onyxes I think.

[therage!]

Originally Posted by noisedude

If I could only have one, it'd be the A+H. But it depends what I was buying it for. If I was only doing recording, and mixing in the box, I'd get one of the rack firewire-equipped Onyxes I think.

I've been eyeing the Onyx 400F. It's got better converters than the Onyx firewire card.

[earworm]

i got an M8,
really clean sound, the eq's do sound nice, BUT, i'm not totally satisfied about it, the highs are set on 12k if i'm correct, the lows on 60 hz,
i find 60 too low, mostly it adds add a muddy sound to what i'm mixing,
and the lowcut filter on each channel is 100 hz, so if u use the lowcut , the bass-eq doesn't do much anymore, if this board would have sweepable mids AND sweepable lows (or low mids) then it would be a total killer mixer,

that is the main reason why i will replace this M8 with a mixwizard, also, subgroups are nice, but since i got 8 direct outs i don't really need subs

in overal, i love the little soundcraft, its a real decent thing,and the preamps are sooo clean, in my opinion the M8 blows the mackie vlz's away TOTALLY !!!
but i haven't heard the onyx series yet..

so i'd say: go for the mixwizard, might be the most expensive choise here but i think that if u get this mixer you'll keep it for a long time !

just one question here; i noticed that there are THREE different mix wizards,
i assume version 3 is the latest, but the best?
whats the real difference between all the mixwizard versions? cause i don't know

thanks

[mshilarious]

Originally Posted by earworm

just one question here; i noticed that there are THREE different mix wizards,
i assume version 3 is the latest, but the best?
whats the real difference between all the mixwizard versions? cause i don't know

thanks

v3 improved the effects, added nicer side panels, phantom switch on each channel, a mono mixer fader, a lamp socket, and changed internal settings from soldered wires to jumpers.

Also the hi and low EQ are fixed at the same values on the MixWiz, but if need be, the para mid EQs can be set anywhere you need them (although they aren't shelving).

[xstatic]

Most importantly, the mix wiz 3 uses preamp and EQ technology out of the ML series instead of the GL series consoles. The ML's sound MUCH better, but the GL's certainly were not bad for their price range.

[sajs]

I own a Soundcraft M4. The sound is great. Very clean! Great E.Q.
The 4 aux sends and digital output are great features. My only complaint is that the aux returns are RCA phono jacks as opposed to the standard 1/4" jacks. The sends are 1/4" jacks.
I don't understand Soundcraft's logic on that design. Every piece of outboard gear I own has 1/4" jacks not phono jacks.

[earworm]

i couldn't believe my eyes when i saw that the aux returns on my M8 were RCA !!! they should have gotten rid of that digital output and invest the money in 1/4" jacks indeed !!!

ps, what do u use the digital output for?
i only use the direct outs, the main outs go to my speakers, and the monitor out goes to my HPamp

[Anonamis_drumme]

I have this mixer here.
http://210.243.85.5/partner/modules/...product_id=141

For the price it is the best thing I could have ever received. They are a alot less known than the ones you chose, I went out on a limb with my purchase and I'm more than happy with it. I've had it for about...3 months and it hasn't given me one fuss. I think it has a 2 year warranty on it so if it DOES fuck up you can get it fixed no problem. The built-in effects are not even worth mentioning more of a thing to look at. I am not too fond of them. Anyways. so ya...just another option.

[mrT]

Originally Posted by Anonamis_drumme

I have this mixer here.
http://210.243.85.5/partner/modules/...product_id=141

For the price it is the best thing I could have ever received. They are a alot less known than the ones you chose, I went out on a limb with my purchase and I'm more than happy with it. I've had it for about...3 months and it hasn't given me one fuss. I think it has a 2 year warranty on it so if it DOES fuck up you can get it fixed no problem. The built-in effects are not even worth mentioning more of a thing to look at. I am not too fond of them. Anyways. so ya...just another option.

So it doesn't sound bad. Do you have any ability to compare quality to these other boards. Becasue if the Pre's stack up it sounds like a useful little board.

[heroics321]

I'm going to have to concur on the MixWizard (I've got the previous 'DX' version). I just finished moving jumpers. Kind of a pain, there was a lot of work involved that you don't need to do with the new one, but I just appreciated that fact that I could actually service it myself. Very, very simple to mod if you've got some basic soldering skills and common sense. Did I mention the EQ? Definitely my favorite feature.

[Anonamis_drumme]

I do not have the ability to A/B so to speak but I have tried out the other mixers in stores and what not.....the mic pre's on the others ARE better BUT not hugely. Like I said I'm not going "hey this sounds like shit" nor going "hey this could sound better" so it fits my needs perfectly. It ISN'T top of line...obviously because of the price but definitly higher quality than say a behringer or nady.....


If you have the cash I would go with the mackie, but I'm pretty biased...i love mackie. My rig suits me just fine I have no complaints. But it could be better I suppose. Just being honest.

[Ironklad Audio]

i just bought an onyx 1640 last month, and couldn't be happier. the preamps sound damn good, and while the digital converters sure as hell aren't apogees, they do have a pretty sweet sound at 24/96.

a lot of people slag on the onyx mixers because the firewire send is pre-eq, and it only returns the L/R mix to the mixer, but shit...show me ANYTHING else out there that will give you 16 preamps with A/D converters for a retail of around $100/channel, and that carries the tag of a REPUTABLE manufacturer. oh yea, there isn't. althought it may suck to only be able to mix in the box, many of us don't have a rack full of analog gear to start with, so this becomes a non-issue.

anyways...i don't have any experience with those other boards, even though i have mixed on a soundcraft ghost, which has great preamps. i guess it all comes down to what you're gonna do with it...if you're like me, and plan on doing all digital recording, and aren't too concerned with using outboard gear when mixing, i'd say the onyx is a pretty good call.

[heroics321]

My only gripe is that you're paying for EQ's that you'll never use unless you repatch (or record and play back using the inserts) and mix out of the box. If I were to buy any of the Onyx products, it would be the stand-alone preamps/converters, that way I know I'm only paying money for features I'm actually going use... which would end up being $2000 for 16 channels from two 800R's, but with several options that are better suited for someone mixing in the software domain (up to 192khz sampling, MS Encoding, more digital out options, impedance switches on two channels, and two DI inputs).

Still, for $2000 you could have a MixWizard paired with something like a Creamware A16... a comparable mixer with nice converters. Also, I'm partial to buying gear that will never be proprietary... in that one piece of gear can always be upgraded when need be, and everything has it's place and isn't crippled in functionality as other gear changes. Things don't always work out that way, but I sure try!

[bigtoe]

just an option to throw out there - look into some older studio master boards...they are in your price range...i used one (a 16X16X2) for a little over a year and was really impressed. the past 15 months i've been using a ghost...i found the studio master is not only comparible, i actually prefer it...way deep lows...so much so that i bought a 28X4X2 for 400 bucks for my new set up.

look around - you can find em cheeeeeeeeeep...as far as a 'summing device' for computer mixes to add some analog - i'd think you couldn't do much better espeically for the money.

Mike

[Double]

I was in the same dilemma when I was looking for a new board. Fortunately my local music store was kind enough to let me take a couple home for the weekend to audition them. I bought the Onyx; I love the new Preamps, EQ and the fact that I can bypass the EQ when needed. I use it for recording only along with a Tascam 2488. I have not yet tried the software, maybe someday. Good Luck

[Ironklad Audio]

My only gripe is that you're paying for EQ's that you'll never use

true. a lot of people gripe about that, but i don't really care, because i'm not a big fan of eq'ing while tracking

that, and now there's a company in texas doing mods for $300 that'll re-route the firewire outs to be post-eq...either pre or post fader, whichever you choose

and i had been looking at the rack-mounted units as well, but i wanted something that would also afford me the flexibility to do live gigs as well...and this is where i think the onyx really makes the case for being 1 of the best deals on the market. shit, if i was only doing studio tracking, i would've ponied up a few more bucks for a couple of MOTU units and some outboard pres.

[soundchaser59]

Any truth to the rumor that the Onyx firewire port is, *GASP*, hardwired pre-eq? Doesn't seem like it would be very useful if that's true.....

Sorry, I just read the post above that says it is true.....

[valverec]

I've never used the Onyx, but the A&H boards a great for the money.