Power conditioner : The truth?

[tenkas]

Anyone knows if power conditioners (or I heard most power conditioners aren't really power conditioners...) but let's say the tripp-lite stuff, is it worth using it if I do not have any ground, hum problems? Will it really protect my gear more then my APC surge arest power bar?

Thanks

[Blue Bear Sound]

There is a lot of marketing hype over power conditioners that is very misleading. And for the electronics gurus here - feel free to correct my terminology as needed - I'm not an electronics guy!

First off - there are several concepts/features to be aware of:

• - VR or Voltage Regulation - circuits that control voltage levels and keep them within a certain range.

• - UPS - circuits that provide battery-backup power for a limited time if AC power is shut-down.

• - Balanced Power - circuits that use transformers to provide isolated voltage distribution and a clean ground to reduce noise.

• - EMI/RFI Filtering - filters for radio-freqs and electromag sources.

• - Power spike protection - fast-response protection from extreme voltage spikes via a fuse or circuit breaker.

Those basic power strips that you get for $20-30 bucks don't provide much more than some filtering and spike protection. They have no VR, UPS, Balanced Power capability.

Then there are basic UPS models - these have NO voltage regulation - and no - just because sometimes designed to feed constantly through the battery, voltage regulation is NOT implied.

Then there are the more expensive ones UPS $300+ which do have specific VR features along with UPS, spike protection, power distribution and filtering.

And there are Balanced power transformers - these are expensive, but DON'T include VR or UPS features.

Bottom-line, the sub-$200 rack mount models are usually nothing more than glorified power strips with spike and EMF/RFI filtering, and maybe with a rack light and voltage indicator tacked on. They do nothing in the way of voltage regulation or UPS, hum-elimination, and they are definitely not set to provide balanced power.

[tenkas]

So basically, sticking with a good APC power bar will do the trick as much has a cheap furman, is that it?

[COOLCAT]

here's some pics i took of my gear.
some jpgs.

note the differences...one only has a 25cent MOV/disc across the back of a AC receptacle.

thread:
http://homerecording.com/bbs/showthr...r+conditioners


same price rack mount ~ 4th level up from the $2.99 "strips"....when there is a level of 10!

[Blue Bear Sound]

Originally Posted by tenkas

So basically, sticking with a good APC power bar will do the trick as much has a cheap furman, is that it?

Yep - pretty much.... you're looking at well over $3-400 for ones that do more...

[jayridge]

I use Furmans at the top of each rack. They are there for 2 reasons:
1) to provide power distribution (outlets) for the rack.
2) to illuminate the other gear in the rack.

The Furmans are plugged into Brickwall surge protectors. These are the things that actually keep my gear safe, and they have zero chance of exploding/combusting like mov based surge protectors. They also provide powerline filtering, but I have yet to be convinced this is necessary.

Jay

[Mr. Moon]

I purchased one of these units a while back after a local studio recommended them to me:

SurgeX SA-1810

No complaints so far!! ...And no, the studio was not attempting to sell one to me, but they recommended a few online resources to purchase one from.

-mr moon

[earworm]

before i got my simple Furman rackrider i did have annoying humms and buzzes in my audio chain, maybe its my imagination but ever since i got that furman it got better (maybe cause most of my rackgear is connected to the same power outlet now?)
but my main reason to buy this unit was:
i live in belgium (220 volt) and 80% of my hardware is US made (110v)
so i need those 9 110volt outlets

[xstatic]

There is certainly some misleading hype concerning things like Power Conditioners. However, I had a fuhrman save a rack one day where I know that just any old power strip would not have. Due to a club miswiring (concerning delta power which was color coded for standard 120), I had a Fuhrman once get powered up while it was connected to a 220 volt circuit. There was a loud pop and three huge jets of smoke propelled out the back of the rack. There was close to $10,000 in that rack and we were worried that it was all toast after hearing that noise and seeing all the smoke. However, every piece of equipment in that rack was fully functional and not only that, but the Fuhrman still worked afterwards. I would not expect that Fuhrman to continue to offer the same level of protection after that, but on that day it made the 24 or so Fuhrmans that we have in all of our various racks worth every last penny. I have been told that they have a special one-time blow capacitor of sorts in them that will offer protection against things like I just mentioned. Basically, I know they don't "clean" or "bablance" my power, but when a $100 Fuhrman power conditioner does its job and protects your gear like it did that day, you become a believer

[earworm]

i heard this kinda story before, those powerstrips might be lifesavers sometimes,
one cool thing, its off topic, but here i go anyway:
it happened to me more than once that i had to switch my compressors from 220 to 110 volts, this way i blew the fuse of my soundcard, mixing desc,...
the only units that never "blew" were my dbx 163x's !!
on two of those units i did it more than once that i ran 220 volt trough it while they were set on 110v, nothing happened, the units worked,
of course i didn't do it for a long time, only a few minutes maximum, but i wonder, how come that these old units can handle 220 and more modern equipment like my motu 828 emediately fries when i run the wrong voltage trough it...?
is that old gear built so much more solid?

[bleyrad]

There were probably wider tolerances on the capacitors on the old units.
It's not a matter of "old vs new" or ruggedness, just how much tolerance was allowed in the caps.
Although, in some cases caps will blow and the unit will continue to function... just that it won't have proper power filtering (bad!) So you might want to have that checked out.
Also the regulators will heat up and might fail (but still pass voltage!)

IMO it's better to just bust a cap or two (or better yet a fuse) when set at the wrong voltage than to have it continue working. The power section can get screwed up and you might be running with no filtering and regulation without even knowing it... which could also possibly cause permanent damage to other parts of the unit.

[COOLCAT]

Originally Posted by jayridge

I use Furmans at the top of each rack. They are there for 2 reasons:
1) to provide power distribution (outlets) for the rack.
2) to illuminate the other gear in the rack.

The Furmans are plugged into Brickwall surge protectors. These are the things that actually keep my gear safe, and they have zero chance of exploding/combusting like mov based surge protectors. They also provide powerline filtering, but I have yet to be convinced this is necessary.

Jay

that looks like a brickwall...damn some good insurance, no doubt.
yeah i got a furmy and its a joke for my use, i mean it has the lights and all that bullshit i don't use, I'll sell it soon.
..for a live guy mixing in the dark sure, but i shoulkd have done my homework.

i'd rather have something more like the Brickwall stuff for my HR Power Line...or the TrippLite, thats actually has more in it than a MOV disc.

its like souping up a car engine at times, like this power conditioning stuff
...or maybe more like putting premium in the gas tank?

[TornadoTed]

I look on this particular topic in a different way. Ok of course we are all paranoid about wrecking our gear one night in a lightening storm, but that is a 1/many many times chance (I'm sorry I haven't researched the odds properly)

What I really want to know is what these 'surge protector', 'UPS' devices are actually doing to our audio when not preventing disaster. I've read reports of UPS devices only providing JUST enough power, up to half as much to keep things running but this has got to affect the AUDIO significantly surely?

I don't know, electricity is one of the banes of my life, I live in the hills of Mid Wales for f**ks sake. But I'm willing to take the chance of a lightening strike at ?,00000??1 or whatever it is killing my equpiment than f**king up my audio every moment my kit is switched on.

I may be wrong but there is so little information on this subject. I posted a topic on Power Conditioning here a couple of weeks ago but all everyone wanted to talk about was this Chinese mic against that Chinese mic, or this very useable quality preamp and that very useable preamp.

To me it is the most important topic in the World. Everything we use is powered by electricity, and if the electric isn't right then the product wont be right. I know that they all have a wide operational range but that has got to be at a cost hasn't it?

[COOLCAT]

I think its like everything else it has its levels of design and cost.
(and overkill too).

Prioritys imo. i'm shirley not serious...

1. $2.99.
We want convienience of multi strips and one switch. Because we're lazy gearheads..and two switches is twice as much effort, as one switch.

2. $5-50.
We want a fuse and surge protection to keep from frying our equipment. (yes, insurance fraud sounds nice, but...the prison is full of people that thought they were smarter than everyone else!
se monitoers won't due u any goods while your talking to the floor and bubba-lifer is enjoying your ...its just not worth it...so if lightening strikes I want a fused Surge protector...no temptations for INsurance Fraud Prison sentence... " )

3. $100-500
We like to know we have EMI RFI and all the other little noisys filtered best we can... peace of mind, good engineering. I know we can't really hear it, but that doesn't matter...thats just thinking too much, just buy the thing and then you can tell everyone."yep, got me one of those there, dufinator noise reduction coils in my POWER CONDITIONER...yep.."

4. $500- Who cares...
We like to be like Pros. Pros do all this sht because they actually have paying customers that don't want hums and buzzes at the beginning of their songs. They don't want lightening trashing their calibrated systems either..

Me, in HR land I like the Gearheadness.. but I ain't gonna spend $2500 on a Transformer/Balancer/Inverter Brickwall unit....when my whole system is $3,000 and dropping.
hell, no.$2500...why, thats almost 10 PAIR of WHARFEDALES!! geez.

Gearhead fantasy...A Home Powerplant

hell if the Oil Cartel keeps increasing the costs..I won't even be able to afford Electricity!

[jonmmartin]

Do any of these things stop the pops that happen when the AC/refrigerator/or other appliances click on?

[themaddog]

Originally Posted by jonmmartin

Do any of these things stop the pops that happen when the AC/refrigerator/or other appliances click on?

That depends on the filtering, and how good it is. I was having some problems with hum, but I use a lot of high-powered equipment: three reel to reel decks (usually two operating at once), desktop computer, flatscreen monitor, and a large mixing deck before even getting to any outboard effects or anything. My computer, before even plugging in the mixer, was registering only about a 50 db signal to noise ratio with the hum, recording just "silence." It came down to about 45 db when I had my mixer plugged in, definitely not a good thing.

On a whim, I tried one of those Monster Power "Conditioners" from Guitar Center, cost $150 for 8 outlets. Now, even with my mixer plugged in, my signal to noise registers at about 79 db, and I can't hear any hum. I thought I had a good, heavy duty surge protector, and had also tried other surge protectors sitting around the house, but still had had the same problem. The Monster really made the difference. Maybe a cheaper unit could provide the same amount of extra headroom for less money, but I'm not messing with it since things are finally starting to sound good.

-MD

[COOLCAT]

there's some serious ones that are like a mini-home power generator/conditioner.
hi end stuff probably your best bet at "STOPPING" the problem.
http://www.equitech.com/products/consumer/modelq.html

i think most state they "improve", not "stop" the problems.

MDog..thats great input on the Monster, i was seeing the same trend, around $100-150 they actually add the circuitry....some with Equipment Warranty Replacement Cost!...tho i'm skeptical they'd actually cut a check very quickly.

I may be getting a $2,000 one if my boss decides to surplus it!! Of course I'm encouraging the surplus, we don't need that damn thing laying around. It just takes up space.

like a Jedi mind trick, "Boss.. We do not need that VariAc Cube...we should send it to surplus...these aren't the droids we're looking for" hehehee

[mshilarious]

Originally Posted by TornadoTed

What I really want to know is what these 'surge protector', 'UPS' devices are actually doing to our audio when not preventing disaster. I've read reports of UPS devices only providing JUST enough power, up to half as much to keep things running but this has got to affect the AUDIO significantly surely?

They shouldn't do anything to your audio. Strap a voltmeter across your powerstrip--if it ain't at least as good as your wall, something is wrong with that strip.

The AC voltage is gonna be transformed, rectified, and regulated in each piece of gear's PSU. The quality of your gears' internal PSU parts is a lot more important for good audio than your power strip.

My home power is nice and steady, so I use an APC rackmount UPS I got cheap--it is supposed to regulate voltage, but I don't really need it here.

For the traveling rack, I have a Furman voltage regulator. Fortunately, I've never had the misfortune of 220V power, but it's cleaned up low voltage or unsteady voltage for me on more than one occasion.

[Big Kenny]

THE TRUTH!??????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You can't handle the TRUTH!

[Badtz]

are there any simple (not a strip) devices that you can put on outlets, and attach all of the big energy items in your house to (like your refrigerator), so when it turns on it doesn't drop the power?

Is it worth it to do this to all your outlets? or just the major appliances?

*assuming you don't have a dedicated power line into the home, and everything shares off that one.

[SillyBee]

I bought this resently:

http://www.monstercable.com/productPage.asp?pin=2141

[SonicAlbert]

Blue Bear's post of 10/8/05 is right on the money, accurate information.

I use and Furman PL-Pluses, Tripplite IsoBar 12, and MBT switched rack mount power strips in my studio. They are all fed by an Equitech balanced power unit. As has been stated in this thread, these kinds of units do not condition the power, they are simply power strips that you can rack. I do prefer the Tripplite over the Furman.

The Equitech balanced power unit does help keep hums and background noise down, but it is not a silver bullet. You still need to do everything else right too. It *does* make it easier to keep the bad noise down though, and you can plug new gear in without worrying whether it will give you a hum or not. It's been years since I've even had a hum to deal with, so maybe I'm spoiled.

[soundchaser59]

Well, one thing I cannot find in this thread is the word "joule". And it is really the only word that matters with power protection.

When I started I did not have any protection other than the little lumber store power strips they called "surge protectors". Pure crap. I wasted a lot of money replacing computer power supplies and rack mount displays, etc. because of summer thunder storms and downtown surges from construction workers cutting lines or whatever.

I finally decided to look for better protection. In doing the research, I learned that the only thing that really matters is how many joules of raw electric power a unit can absorb before it blows. A "joule" is (correct me if I'm off base here....I'm not an engineer) basically the raw "horsepower" of electricity measured in foot-pounds, or how much juice it takes to move 1 pound a (vertical??) distance of 1 foot. I found that a lot of those cheap surge protectors are only rated for 50 or 100 joules. That's nothing in a modern household. I felt lucky the day I found a large strip rated for 800 joules at a lumber yard selling for a mere $39.

I ended up buying the Tripp Lite LC1800 units. They are rated in the thousands of joules, and they are guaranteed against direct lightning strike if a strike ruins your gear while running behind the unit. Since that is exactly what happened to me (lightning hitting overhead lines outside my house) I tried it. Since then I've heard the loud clicks and pops when it "takes a hit", but I've not spent one more dime on replacing power supplies or anything else.

If a power conditioner of any kind does not give a joule rating, dont buy it. Anything worth trying will give a joule rating. Buy the unit with the highest joule rating you can afford, and if possible get one that includes UPS for power failures. UPS is the only other feature I wish mine had. The Tripp Lites protect against momentary brown outs or voltage sags, but not against total failures. I dont know if Tripp Lite is the absolute best way to go, but I do know if you use the "max joule rule" when you buy, you will never be disappointed in the thing if and when it finally has to do its job.

[soundchaser59]

here is the "reputation comment" I got from this friendly spirit....

"punked -dj yak man"


So this forum has the "reputation" thing and anybody can just trash anybody's so-called "reputation" anytime for any reason on a whim, etc....???

How precious!

[DarkCide]

Originally Posted by soundchaser59

Well, one thing I cannot find in this thread is the word "joule". And it is really the only word that matters with power protection.

When I started I did not have any protection other than the little lumber store power strips they called "surge protectors". Pure crap. I wasted a lot of money replacing computer power supplies and rack mount displays, etc. because of summer thunder storms and downtown surges from construction workers cutting lines or whatever.

I finally decided to look for better protection. In doing the research, I learned that the only thing that really matters is how many joules of raw electric power a unit can absorb before it blows. A "joule" is (correct me if I'm off base here....I'm not an engineer) basically the raw "horsepower" of electricity measured in foot-pounds, or how much juice it takes to move 1 pound a (vertical??) distance of 1 foot. I found that a lot of those cheap surge protectors are only rated for 50 or 100 joules. That's nothing in a modern household. I felt lucky the day I found a large strip rated for 800 joules at a lumber yard selling for a mere $39.

I ended up buying the Tripp Lite LC1800 units. They are rated in the thousands of joules, and they are guaranteed against direct lightning strike if a strike ruins your gear while running behind the unit. Since that is exactly what happened to me (lightning hitting overhead lines outside my house) I tried it. Since then I've heard the loud clicks and pops when it "takes a hit", but I've not spent one more dime on replacing power supplies or anything else.

If a power conditioner of any kind does not give a joule rating, dont buy it. Anything worth trying will give a joule rating. Buy the unit with the highest joule rating you can afford, and if possible get one that includes UPS for power failures. UPS is the only other feature I wish mine had. The Tripp Lites protect against momentary brown outs or voltage sags, but not against total failures. I dont know if Tripp Lite is the absolute best way to go, but I do know if you use the "max joule rule" when you buy, you will never be disappointed in the thing if and when it finally has to do its job.

In my search for a suitable power conditioner, I have become more frustrated the more I read about it.

No one really can give good advice when it comes to this topic.

The quoted post is useful. No one is mentioning the "joule" value importance. To be honest, I think most who claim to know about conditioner or surge protectors don't even know what the joule value means!