Mic's vs. Mic Pre's

[an1989dy]

I am running a digi 002 into pt LE and using a 16 ch. behringer mixer for my pres. i use 57's for guitars and drums, and a $100 mxl condenser for vocals. what would affect my quality more... better mics (vocals and overheads), or better mic pres? if the latter, what is a good multichannel mic pre that isn't really expensive. i was looking at the m-audio octane... any suggestions?

[dgatwood]

Originally Posted by an1989dy

I am running a digi 002 into pt LE and using a 16 ch. behringer mixer for my pres. i use 57's for guitars and drums, and a $100 mxl condenser for vocals. what would affect my quality more... better mics (vocals and overheads), or better mic pres? if the latter, what is a good multichannel mic pre that isn't really expensive. i was looking at the m-audio octane... any suggestions?

Do you get a lot of hiss from your preamps? Hum? Exaggerated highs? If not, my bet would be that better mics would make a much bigger difference. The difference in preamps tends to be subtle unless you buy something radically different like a tube preamp. I can tell the difference between the so-so pres in my Mackie CR1604 and the ones in my Peavey PV-8 fairly easily (the latter giving a much cleaner, less tubby sound), but it pales in comparison to the improvement from switching from a PG58 to a Nady ribbon. Night and day.

For vocals, I'd either invest in an LDC or a ribbon mic. The difference will be jaw-dropping. Get a pair of SDCs for drum overheads. Even the cheapest SDC will sound better for overheads than an SM57, IMHO. I've had good luck with the Nady CM-90 (about $45), personally, but I'm toying with the notion of using a pair of Oktava MK-012s....

[brandondrury]

I recently tested a number of "kick ass" mic pres from Mercenary Audio.

I did a number of tests which I still need to mix down. Hear you can listen to one of the tests. Note: This was not a great test. It's meant to show what one mic on a drum set sounds like with different pres. It's not meant to be the end all test, but the results were very clear to me.

The competitors
API 3124 MB, Great River MP-2NV, Presonus M80, Vintech 1272, Mackie XDR

Mic Preamp Comparison

Brandon Drury

[gbondo9]

I'd go with better mics for now. Ive used the behringer pre's, and while they are definately nothing to brag about, they get the job done with relatively low noise and not too much coloring of the signal (IMHO). Upgrading your pres would probably be a subtle change if you did not upgarde your mics too.

New mics on the other hand, will drasticly change the sounds you are recording. As stated before, look into some new large and small diaphragm condesors. There are quite a few favorites around here depending on your budget, but it's always a good suggestions to just go spend a day at the stores and try 'em all.

Good luck - let us know what you decide.

Todd

[Robert D]

There was a thread on this topic not too long ago, so search for it. It's a fairly contentuous subject, bordering on the likes of PC/MAC, AMD/Intel, Democrat/Republican, Catholic/Protestant, Ginger/Mary Ann.
I lean on the Mary Ann side myself. I mean, plugging your cable into a sexy high dollar Ginger sounds great, but I'd rather come home everyday to a nice natural sounding Mary Ann.

The real answer, of course, is both. But for which first, I find more differences between mics than preamps myself. You might want to head over to thelisteningsessions.com and hear the comparisons over there. If you were using Mackie pres, I'd think it was a slam dunk for the mic upgrade. With the Berri Pres it's a little more debateable.

-Bob

[sdelsolray]

You alreasy have 4 "better than Berry" pres in the Digi002. How often are you needing to use the Berry pres?

[an1989dy]

Thanks for all the help. I think for now I am going to go with upgrading mics. I used my digi as a standalone mixer once, and the pres in it sounded worse than those in my berry mixer, but i need to try them out more.

[jkokura]

Just curious what direction you'll be heading for mics? How many LDC's, SDC's, Ribbons, dynamics? any ones you're thinking about?

[brandondrury]

I have issues with this whole preamp thing. While I'm hesitant to say it, I think it's one of those great myths that people just started buying into. My girlfriend can't hear a difference between a $10 Mackie preamp and a $2200 Great River preamp on any source that I tested. She can surely hear a difference between my recordings and the radio though.

While the preamps may make a slight difference, there are much bigger fish to fry when it comes to recording (in my opinion) like:

1)Getting great bands into your studio
2)Getting these great bands to record great songs
3)Getting the acoustics of your studio in order.
4)Having a tonal pallette of mics that can handle just about any situation.
5)Having the mixing skills to fully do a great song justice

If you can do all these things well, you won't even need "great preamps". Then again, if you can do all these things well, maybe the preamps you use will actually make a difference.

Brandon

[BigRay]

FWIW, a good resource for listening to different gear(mics, pres, Op-amps, etc)

The Listening Sessions

[Big Kenny]

Originally Posted by brandondrury

My girlfriend can't hear a difference between a $10 Mackie preamp and a $2200 Great River preamp on any source that I tested.
Brandon

It's hard to reply to that but I felt I had to. WHAT?!!!!?

[mixmkr]

Ya know, I have to solidly go with Brandondrury. There are MUCH more important issues before deciding on equipment choices, since even the worst of the barrel in equipment, can be pretty decent nowadays. I agree completely with Brandondrury's list too....with the potential exception of #4...having a bunch of different mics. Just some good, clean, accurate ones instead.

I am also not shocked that the guys girlfriend in the above post couldn't hear a diff in the mackie vs highend preamp. While the mackies aren't top notch, they are nice and clean...or sterile, brittle..however you want to look at it...but extremely usable. Sure when you stack 24 tracks of 'em up, it starts to hurt... BUT 24 tracks of poorly mic'd anything will hurt even more.

mic placement and technique will make a much larger diff than what kind of mic your are using imo...thus negating what preamp you are even using too... another useless opinion!
so...in that context, if you are micing a "average" acoustic guitar with an "average" mic in an "average" room...how are you going to accurately tell the difference between something as subtle as a preamp could be? A lot of people claim to have ears I KNOW they don't have.

I would like to see a trend of COMPLETELY nuetral sounding preamps and mics being geared towards home recordists, so they could develop the above skills in Branddrury's post...then move on to the "dessert" with mics with exotic flavours. The guy just starting out with a PC and a Nady mic doesn't need a 4kHz hump in his mic response to "help" him, eh?? at least in my opinion.

[Blue Bear Sound]

Originally Posted by brandondrury

My girlfriend can't hear a difference between a $10 Mackie preamp and a $2200 Great River preamp on any source that I tested.

All that proves is your wife doesn't have a critical ear for audio detail.............. pretty spurious reason to think that high-end pres don't make a difference..............

I'll agree with you one one thing though -- a lot of other stuff has to be in place before someone worries about mic pres.

[mixmkr]

Originally Posted by Blue Bear Sound

All that proves is your wife doesn't have a critical ear for audio detail.............. pretty spurious reason to think that high-end pres don't make a difference..............

I'll agree with you one one thing though -- a lot of other stuff has to be in place before someone worries about mic pres.

what the heck does "spurious" mean!!! Guitar players aren't supposed to know words like that are they, just to deliver pizza..........?

[Blue Bear Sound]

Originally Posted by mixmkr

Guitar players aren't supposed to know words like that are they, just to deliver pizza..........?

Spurious: of falsified or erroneously attributed origin

[noisedude]

Always good to be fastidiously accurate in your use of extraneous vocabulary, especially those words derivated from ancient languages such as Latin. (Spot and correct three mis-used words in this post and win a free year's supply of a smug aura )

[noisedude]

FWIW - IMHO - Get some decent mics sorted out. Between the Digi and the Berry you should be ok for now ... then try to get at least one really decent pre rather than a tonne more mediocre ones (difficult to get by your missus though ... you don't get much to show for it!!).

[Middleman]

Actually he stated it was his girlfriend not his wife. I would imagine she is thinking, stupid preamps, why doesn't he pop for a ring.

This could have negative ramifications on the preamp test.

[noisedude]

Originally Posted by Middleman

Actually he stated it was his girlfriend not his wife. I would imagine she is thinking, stupid preamps, why doesn't he pop for a ring.

This could have negative ramifications on the preamp test.