some really basic questions about MIDI

[GreenSpectrum]

Hi,
you know that saying that your nicer teachers used to employ to make you feel better on the first day of school: "the only dumb question is the one that is not asked."? Well, thats the spirit in which I ask these "dumb" question about midi. I'm a long time musician, in my 30s, and I grew up in the era of analog everything. I've been recording with digital now for a little while, and I'm reasonably comfortable with digital audio. However, I'm still pretty lost with MIDI. I'm lost with the practice rather than the theory, mainly. So here are a few simple questions that I'm sure any of you will know the answers to right off the bat, have at em:

1. do programs like cubase, Acid Pro, Sonar, etc. actually contain some kind of internal "synthesizer" that can be used without any external keyboard at all?

1a: would these sounds and in general does midi always require a "controller" somehow to be used, or could you, say, play something on your keyboard and then simply play it back through the speakers? ( I know this sounds basic but I really am unclear on things like this.)

1b. Could you CREATE something with one of these progams' internal synths ( if indeed thats what they are) completely without playing anything or having any external synth involved at all?

2. Where the hell is the midi in on my pc, or is there one? Is it generally on the soundcard? Apparently not as I have a good delta Audiophile card and theres only stereo in and out (rca) and Spidf. I looked all over the back of my pc, just an ordinary garden variety Dell, and found nothing. I Know what midi ports look like. Do I have to buy some kind of midi plug and play device or some shit? I really dont know the answer to this, amazing as it may seem.

3. Is midi combineable with audio ( wav files, etc.), such that you could have a project that played both and got mixed down and burned on to a cd just like a fully audio recorded thing?


I guess thats about it. Any replies appreciated.

Thanks a lot,

Will

[Phishn4842]

Imno expert on this myself, but ill take a stab at it....usually recording programs such as cubase and such dont have their own synthesizers in them, rather they work in conjunction with programs like reason, or digital performer, which have their own synthesizers, i could be wrong im not familiar with acid or logic....
midi doesnt always require a controller, but it makes things alot esier, there are ways to program averything without a controller, but i feel its worth the 100 dollar investment to get them...
like i said no internal synths that i know of, but with reason or digital performer, you can fairly easily create songs from beginning to end...
Midi is usually not on soundcards i dont think, but may audio interfaces have them, or you can get fairly inexpensive midi interfaces, such as the midisport, and things like that...
and lastly, dont confuse midi with audio, midi is not sound, it is just information that conveys, velocity, and pitch among other things, it can b tuned in to audio, but midi itself is not audio, its just performance data...

I think thats it...hopefully i havent led you too far off...dont be afraid to ask dumb question, i do it all the time...good luck
Scott

[ssscientist]

Originally Posted by GreenSpectrum

Do I have to buy some kind of midi plug and play device or some shit? 3. Is midi combineable with audio ( wav files, etc.), such that you could have a project that played both and got mixed down and burned on to a cd just like a fully audio recorded thing?

The answer the the first question is yes. Recommended shit might include this, this (which I own) or if you have a desktop machine this or this.

And yes, midi is fully combineable with audio and can be combined to CD just like a fully recorded thing.

Here are links to two good articles on midi basics - part one and part two.

[AlChuck]

First, one or two things for GreenSpectrum:

Just to be crystal clear, when ssscientist wrote, "the answer the the first question is yes," he did not mean the quation in your post numbered 1, but the first of the questions in the chunk that he quoted.

Also, when he says, "and yes, midi is fully combineable with audio and can be combined to CD just like a fully recorded thing," that's not strictly true. MIDI is combineable within programs like Cubase etc. in a workflow sense, but the MIDI data must be rendered to audio data before it can be burned to CD along with otherwise-recorded audio. Some modern tools make this process seamless and hide a little of the complexity, but it's audio data that goes onto the CD, not some combined thing consisting of audio and MIDI data.

1a: would these sounds and in general does midi always require a "controller" somehow to be used, or could you, say, play something on your keyboard and then simply play it back through the speakers?

Here when you say "on your keyboard" are you talking about the computer's keyboard? There are some utilities that will allow you to use a standard PC keyboard as a MIDI controller of sorts.

Check out MIDI Ox
and Bome's Mouse Keyboard

1b. Could you CREATE something with one of these progams' internal synths ( if indeed thats what they are) completely without playing anything or having any external synth involved at all?

Besides capturing a MIDI keyboard performance as it's played, you can also use most MIDI software packages to type in MIDI data note-by-note. Be advised that this approach is about as tedious as painting a house with a tootbrush, but it can be done.

Now, to a couple of Phishn4842's comments:

usually recording programs such as cubase and such dont have their own synthesizers in them, rather they work in conjunction with programs like reason, or digital performer, which have their own synthesizers, i could be wrong im not familiar with acid or logic...

Nearly right. They work with external MIDI devices or with DXi and/or VSTi plug-in synths (which communicate with host programs through the DX or VST architecture).

Midi is usually not on soundcards i dont think, but may audio interfaces have them...

The terms "audio interface" and soundcard" are pretty interchangeable, but the difference is that a soundcard would typically have a MIDI interface (and a MIDI synth on it too), whereas an audio interface would purely be for digitizing audio. So this one you got backwards.

midi is not sound, it is just information that conveys, velocity, and pitch among other things, it can b tuned in to audio...

Good thing to point out, but said a little unclearly so let me comment a bit. MIDI isn't turned into audio, MIDI tells a device what audio to play. There is absolutely no inherent audio information in a MIDI file that can be converted or turned into audio. MIDI data must be interpreted by a MIDI-complaint audio-producing device and the output of that gets saved to an audio format.

[GreenSpectrum]

Thanks everyone!

so basically, I'd have to buy plug ins to get any synth sound happening eh? that is, synth sounds other than those on my synth. ok anyway though I still dont know where I'm gonna plus the midi chord in.you said soundcards should have them. Wait, bingo, I remeber something that came with the card: midi inputs that attacjhed to, something else, like little cbles with midi inpouts on them. Ive forgotten it mainly and probably lost them. would there be some adapter that adapted spidf to midi? shit I'll never find that shit now, but maybe I could buy some new ones.

Will

[AlChuck]

Pretty much any of those programs package a couple of VSTi or DXi plug-in synths with them. And there are some freebies floating around, especially in the VST world. So no, you don't necessarily have to buy plug-in instruments.

The MIDI Port on a standard consumer soundcard shares the gameport by way of a special adapter, as you are remembering. You can get one for $20 or so if it's lost. And no, there is no cable that adapts MIDI connectors to S/PDIF - S/PDIF is a digital audio connection.

[noisewreck]

@ Phishn4842,

Sorry, but there is some misinformation here that I think needs to be corrected, hope you won't get offended.

Originally Posted by Phishn4842

usually recording programs such as cubase and such dont have their own synthesizers in them, rather they work in conjunction with programs like reason, or digital performer, which have their own synthesizers, i could be wrong im not familiar with acid or logic....

Cubase does indeed come with some built-in synths, although they're nothing (both in quality and quantity) compared to what you get with Logic Pro 7. Also, I don't see the point of using Cubase or Logic for that matter with Digital Performer, as they all basically do the same thing, although using Reason with ReWire is a pretty standard practice with any of the above sequencers.

Originally Posted by GreenSpectrum

1. do programs like cubase, Acid Pro, Sonar, etc. actually contain some kind of internal "synthesizer" that can be used without any external keyboard at all?

So, I suppose I partially answered this question. Cubase and Sonar (and Logic and Digital Performer) do come with some synths, Acid doesn't and it is a different category of a program from those, although the latest versions have some rudimentary MIDI support.

Basically what you will need to do in any those programs is setup a MIDI track, load one of the virtual synths, and route the output of the MIDI track to that instrument. Exactly how you do this differs from program to program, so if you can refer to a specific program, we'd be able to help you better.

All the programs also allow the user to enter notes using the mouse. Obviously due to its nature this method gets tedious, and depending on the musical style, might not give the best results, so although having an actual external keyboard is not necessary, it is highly desirable as it makes things easier.

The rest of your questions have been answered rather in detail, so I'll stop rambling

[NLAlston]

Originally Posted by noisewreck

@ Phishn4842,



Cubase does indeed come with some built-in synths, although they're nothing (both in quality and quantity) compared to what you get with Logic Pro 7. Also, I don't see the point of using Cubase or Logic for that matter with Digital Performer, as they all basically do the same thing, although using Reason with ReWire is a pretty standard practice with any of the above sequencers.

So, is this to say that 'ReWire' is an embedded feature with Reason (3.0)? Or would an interested party have to buy that ReWire program separately?

[noisewreck]

ReWire is a standard that was developed by Propellerheads (the makers of Reason) to allow different music applications to communicate with each other. It is either supported by a given software or it isn't, it's not something like an "enabler" that you purchase separately. Reason, Cubase, Logic, Pro Tools and I believe Digital Performer and Sonar all support it. This basically allows you to use Reason as a "plugin" within a sequencer such as Cubase.

[NLAlston]

Thanks, Noise ~

That is some pretty favorable information.

[LfO]

I'd just like to throw an analogy out there that helped me grasp the whole MIDI thing when I was first introduced to it:
MIDI information is like sheet music - it doesn't make any audible sound itself, but if you get someone who can read music, they can interpret and make the sounds you wanted (synthesizers = "someone who can read music"). Of course, you could get different musicians with different skill levels and instruments to play the music (i.e., you can play the MIDI data with different synthesizers).

[Phishn4842]

yeah i figured i threw some not entirely perfect information out there, but hopefully i didnt lead the original poster too far off base, id like to think im not that bad...
peace
Scott

[Riverdog]

You could actually further that analysis and state that MIDI is not even sheet music... It's acutally the "piano ROLL" of a player piano...

The punch holes of a player piano 'paper song' determine for the piano how hard the key is hit - how long it holds, etc... MIDI does EXACTLY the same thing except with cables and MIDI channels...

Hope this further clarifies...

[necrosensual]

no one mentioned this, but you wanted to know where to plug the MIDI cables.
There used to be a spot on the back of computers for this. In the Joystick port. You can get a cheap interface cable from your local music store. Plug your keyboard's MIDI out into the interface's in jack, plug the interface's out jack into a drum machine. If you don't need to send MIDI, thats fine too.
For MIDI flexibility FL Studio is great.
Some things about MIDI that can slow you down: Make sure that you set the Port# within your sequencer and match it with your external devices. You also need to set in and out channel #s. Don't forget that MIDI doesn't make a sound, its just data, you need to send the data to an instrument (drum machine, softsynth, etc.)

[pouxhawk]

I just scanned the thread quickly, so if this is redundant, I apologize. Your Audiophile card does not have an onboard synth, like a sound blaster. It does have a MIDI connector that can be used to send and receive Midi information. I'm a newb to Midi just as you are, but I imagine that even a basic piano keyboard will make working in MIDI much quicker. It will also give you a basic set of voices to work with. Yamaha makes a bunch of models that are a lot of fun to work with. Even for a ten thumbed lummox like me.

poux