Burned Roads (please critique)

[Thunderstruck]

This starlit night, I have come to see
What we’ve heard
It’s right ahead, the nuance of eternity
It’s hanging over our choice

The dimmer days, Are now here
Greeting us in
What we chose, on that night
Is close to us now

These are the things I have done
I don’t know if I should have
The path is burned only one way
What I chose I am forced to follow

The choice was then, is the time passed
That I can try again
Did I complete it the right way?
Or did I fail

I’ll give it more tries, though I can’t change
Where the past lies.
I can’t go back to where I was, so I must live
With the consequence

These are the things I have done
I don’t know if I should have
The path is burned only one way
What I chose I am forced to fallow

Our roads are burning, our minds are turning
(All we’re learning, keeps us yearning)
The paths we’ve taken, the words we’ve spoken
(Time is taking, our lives are shaking)

(Our roads are burning, our minds are turning)
(Time is taking, our lives are shaking) X2


i have music done already for this but its somewhat flexible so if you see something weird please tell me. It's an acoustic guitar song. so tell me what you think.

[Garry Sharp]

I think this is a song about the consequences of having made a bad choice, but it's hard to tell. Some thoughts for you:

What is a nuance of eternity?
How can roads burn?
Should fallow read follow?
If the time is past (you mean passed) then how can the singer have the choice again (if you see what I mean)?
If he can't change it why is he (or she) trying?
What does "all we're learning keeps us yearning" have to do with it?
Time is taking what? How can a life shake?

Writing lyrics is rather more difficult than many people realise

[Thunderstruck]

Well if you're wanting to know what nuance is, grab a dictionary. Thanks for correcting my spelling, I was typing fast and whatnot. In using burn iin reference to "burning a trail" but i use road instead of trail. People still try even when they can't change something, that's the whole basis of hope. Time is taking away the amount of chances you have to do something, and a life can shake if it's going through hard times. Shaking of faith, belief, morals and so on. When people learn about how others have overcome their problems they "yearn" to be like them and their jealous of the strength of others and they "yearn" for that strength. So there you go, I believe I've answered all of your questions. Let me know if you have any other questions about it or problems with it.

[Garry Sharp]

OK, well as long as you're happy.

[GoldFalcon]

Well, I'd say that you need a unified rhyme scheme, and you need to work on the meter and rythm. Break down the lines by syllable and match 'em up. THis will do two things: it will make the song more "catchy" and more memorable to people (rhyme is easier to remember that free verse, which is why we use them to teach children), and it will force you to more clearly define the central theme of the song because it forces you to choose very specific words and structures so tighter songs result from better rhyme schemes.

Here's how I'd write it:
This starlit night, I have come to see
if what we’ve heard is what will be,
shades of eternity
are hanging over our choice

The dimmer days are here now
invite us in and shut us down
What we chose
Is now so close I feel its voice

Bridge (do a key shift)
These are the things I have done
Can’t choose right or wrong or run
the trail is blazed, the path is burned
One way down is all I’ve learned
What I chose is all I got
Follow me down

Chorus
Our roads are burning, our minds are turning
(All we’re learning, keeps us yearning)
The paths we’ve taken, the words we’ve spoken
(Time is taking, our lives are broken)

The choice was then, is the time passed
I can try again but it won’t last
Was I right?
You never know, so carry on

I’ll give it more tries, though I can’t change
The past lies in broken frames.
I can’t go back
Just gotta live with what is gone

These are the things I have done
Can’t choose right or wrong or run
the trail is blazed, the path is burned
One way down is all I’ve learned
What I chose is all I got
Follow me down

Chorus
Our roads are burning, our minds are turning
(All we’re learning, keeps us yearning)
The paths we’ve taken, the words we’ve spoken
(Time is taking, our lives are broken)

Feel free to do anything you like with my advice and changes including but not limited to: use them, ignore them, ridicule them, get angry at them, record them, or toss them in the trash.

[Thunderstruck]

thank you for your suggestions. I will take them under consideration. But some of them i cant do because i have the music already. And a few of them i cant do because it changes what i meant when i wrote it. But thank you.

[Garry Sharp]

Good job Gold Falcon. Not sure why he bothered posting in the first place tho...

[Thunderstruck]

uhhhhhhh well he did do a good job but still, shouldnt you like say something to me about it. And i posted to hear what people had to say. Im taking what GF said under consideration and using it to improve the song (btw thanks GF) that is the purpose of asking for help is it not? to receive help and to learn using that help to improve that one thing set as your goal. But let everyone else who as anything to say about it know this, the only help i need is with the song itself, not the meaning of it. Please know that every word i used (as far as the meaning behind, maybe not for how it fit musically which is what i asked for help with in the first place) had a purpose. Now please, only use this thread to make useful comments and not question my reasons for seeking help.

[GoldFalcon]

I understand you attachment to your own words, it is your song after all, but if one is attached to every word of a song it is generally better not to ask for critiques on it as someone will surely suggest that you change some.

Also keep in mind that we have only the benefit of the lyrics, not the song, so all of the critiques are less than half informed. Paul Simon's "America" is one of the best songs of the last four decades and has no rhyme scheme at all. It only becomes a good song when set to music (thus "song").

I am far tougher on my own songs than I would ever dream of being on anyone else's and my stack of songs that I will never play again is twice the size of my "good" stack. Some of the notes on my "crap" stack say things about my own songs like:
"disjointed"; "rip-off"; "gutless and formulaic"; "what the hell were you thinking?"; "worst thing ever written, by anyone".

That sort of honesty comes from being able to objectively compare my songs to those that other songwriters --working songwriters-- are writing. I constantly review and cull my songbook since a song that I thought was good when I wrote it will turn out to be utter crap when I get some distance from it. The upside is that when I use that same lens to determine that I have a good song, I can be relatively sure that I have a song that is professional caliber and not just good enough to amuse friends and relatives at parties.

To illustrate, here is one from my "crap" stack. Across the top in big, black strokes I have written "Disjoined, pretentious, melodramatic. Utter Crap. Good ideas and phrases in spots" I may use some of the phrases in another song because they are good, just not in the current context.

I never get attached to a whole song, rather I look at it as a collection of words that I either used well or didn't.

Rolling Bones

Woke up from a dream I've been having lately
Can't help myself, can't try to save me
I look and watch the world go up
and, oh God, I'm going down
helpless on the shore
as I watch myself drown

The rats are in my head
running through my mind
don't know if I can take it this time

Chorus
This time I might just give up, give in
Let the ocean take me, revel in the end
This time might be the last one
could be the only one I know
you know it's hard to leave
when you've got nowhere left to go

woke up in a dream again today
that man on the soapbox had nothing left to say
I couldn't scream out when I started to fade away
I never really thought about why I thought I should
Wouldn't change it if I thought you could
So I think I might just run away

(chorus)

And Oh, God, I'm dreaming again, this fear a constant friend
I've opened the closet, 'dem bones are rolling out
My soul's full of nothing, with a head full of doubts
The lovers cross, The Southern Cross, this one I have to bear
Friends, life, and lovers seem to vanish in the air
This thorny crown doesn't seem to fit me anymore
and I'm just rolling bones when I hit the floor

(chorus)

I've never played the song in public and never would because it is awful, but some of the phrases I used are OK, some (particularly in the last verse) are even good. The rest of the song is trash, but I didn't know that while I was writing it.

Anyway, the point is, try not to become too attached to a song as a whole, otherwise you may waste a good phrase or idea in a mediocre song.

[azraelswings]

Originally Posted by Thunderstruck

Well if you're wanting to know what nuance is, grab a dictionary. Thanks for correcting my spelling, I was typing fast and whatnot. In using burn iin reference to "burning a trail" but i use road instead of trail. People still try even when they can't change something, that's the whole basis of hope. Time is taking away the amount of chances you have to do something, and a life can shake if it's going through hard times. Shaking of faith, belief, morals and so on. When people learn about how others have overcome their problems they "yearn" to be like them and their jealous of the strength of others and they "yearn" for that strength. So there you go, I believe I've answered all of your questions. Let me know if you have any other questions about it or problems with it.

Originally Posted by Garry Sharp

I think this is a song about the consequences of having made a bad choice, but it's hard to tell. Some thoughts for you:

What is a nuance of eternity?
How can roads burn?
Should fallow read follow?
If the time is past (you mean passed) then how can the singer have the choice again (if you see what I mean)?
If he can't change it why is he (or she) trying?
What does "all we're learning keeps us yearning" have to do with it?
Time is taking what? How can a life shake?

Writing lyrics is rather more difficult than many people realise

I think you misunderstood why G# asked those questions. He wasn't asking because he didn't understand your song, he asked because a reader or listener will have those questions after analyzing your lyrics.

I also agree that the phrase "nuance of eternity" really doesn't make much sense given the meaning of the two words.

That said, I really don't like critiquing lyrics without music. Some lyrics that I would consider trite nonsense on the page turn into very good songs when sung over a fitting melody.

Good advice from GF and G#.

[Garry Sharp]

Good post Sean.

Thunderstruck you seem to have fallen into the very common trap of writing lyrics for yourself, not the listener. I'm sorry but for me they just don't work at all, for the reasons implied in my first post. I was hoping that having asked for comments (and we can only comment on the words because that's all you have given us) you might have had a more constructive reaction than simply to tell me to get a dictionary.

I think it was Aaron Cheney here who pointed out the need to wear two hats - the creative hat one day and the critical hat the next, this is exactly the approach that GoldFalcon was advocating; I don't want to put words into his mouth but I think he was gently trying to tell you that your critical hat good do with an airing.

[Thunderstruck]

well i was joking when i said grab a dictionary (note the wink) but please know you weren't the only people i was asking for help with this. I'm in the process of rewriting the song based on many different references. Plus i said every word had a purpose, not that i wasnt willing to express that in purpose in a different way. But anyway this original version was my first draft. i wrote it in like 5 minutes and saved it to my computer and found it a few months later and said "hey. i might be able to do something with this." But yes i understand it isnt about big words and crap like that, but about the meaning and the music and flow. anyways, thanks for the help, ill add the new version when i finish it.

[junplugged]

it's a poem, not a song since I can't hear any music, and the first 2 paragraphs are so abstract I have no idea what they mean, so it's not a lyric either. Ambiguity is for poems not lyrics.

[azraelswings]

Originally Posted by junplugged

it's a poem, not a song since I can't hear any music, and the first 2 paragraphs are so abstract I have no idea what they mean, so it's not a lyric either. Ambiguity is for poems not lyrics.

I honestly doubt that many serious poets would agree with that. I don't mean to say that poems tell all, on the contrary they often leave certain things unsaid, but good poems do so no more or less often than good lyrics.

Agreed about the comments though, although a bit harsh.

[Johnathon]

To the tune of the Seal song...

Like a kiss from a rose on the grey,
I love ambiguity that way.

Did you know, they paid me mo'
My eyes become wide,
And the grammy aside
I've got green

Added on edit
People have spent entire careers decifering abiguity in poetry and song. And the phrase "poety and song" are often used together and sort of synominous. People have also spent thier entire careers trying to teach people like me how to spell.
j