Extended Chord Resource?

[Raydio]

Say for instance I make a melody in the key or E Major and want to find that unknown chord that keeps popping up in my head. Im looking for a resource either online or book that not only tells me what chords I can make in the EMajor scale, but also tells me about possible inversions of these chords. Anyone know of any? Thanks

[FALKEN]

I don't know of a resource....never needed one. You could just learn the notes in the scale and how to build chords off of them. for instance, Emajor is

E F# G# A B C# D# E

you can build a chord off of any note in that scale.

E major is E G# B
F# minor is F# A C#
G# minor is G# B D#
A major is A C# E
B major is B D# E
C# minor is C# E F#
D# dimished is D# F# A

do you see the pattern?? each chord is built off of the 1st, 3rd, and 5th note in the scale, counting forward from the root. you can add the 7th note of the scale counting forward...for instance F#m7 would be F# A C# E. it works the same in any scale....

an inversion is simply putting the 3rd, 5th, or 7th of the chord below the root. so F#m7 first inversion is A in the root, and any combination of A, C#, and E above that.

[Raydio]

Good info for us all thanks I understood those rules before but Im looking for a guide so I wont have to sit down too long trying to figure out what chords, inversions, etc. a song on the radio is playing. I figure I would go through the book auditioning the chords in that scale.

[famous beagle]

Originally Posted by FALKEN

I don't know of a resource....never needed one. You could just learn the notes in the scale and how to build chords off of them. for instance, Emajor is

E F# G# A B C# D# E

you can build a chord off of any note in that scale.

E major is E G# B
F# minor is F# A C#
G# minor is G# B D#
A major is A C# E
B major is B D# E
C# minor is C# E F#
D# dimished is D# F# A

do you see the pattern?? each chord is built off of the 1st, 3rd, and 5th note in the scale, counting forward from the root. you can add the 7th note of the scale counting forward...for instance F#m7 would be F# A C# E. it works the same in any scale....

an inversion is simply putting the 3rd, 5th, or 7th of the chord below the root. so F#m7 first inversion is A in the root, and any combination of A, C#, and E above that.

Just correcting a typo here:

B major is B D# F#, not B D# E
C# minor is C# E G#, not C# E F#

[FALKEN]

Originally Posted by famous beagle

Just correcting a typo here:

B major is B D# F#, not B D# E
C# minor is C# E G#, not C# E F#

true, true. hadnt finished my coffee yet!


if you are just trying to figure out songs on the radio, just play the power chords up and down the neck till u find it.

most songs on the radio don't really stay in any "key". its usually more of a "tonality".

[Mr songwriter]

The only one I know of is Chordie, it doesn't do quite what you were asking for though:

http://www.chordie.com/chords.php

[The First Don]

Originally Posted by FALKEN

I don't know of a resource....never needed one. You could just learn the notes in the scale and how to build chords off of them. for instance, Emajor is

E F# G# A B C# D# E

you can build a chord off of any note in that scale.

E major is E G# B
F# minor is F# A C#
G# minor is G# B D#
A major is A C# E
B major is B D# E
C# minor is C# E F#
D# dimished is D# F# A

do you see the pattern?? each chord is built off of the 1st, 3rd, and 5th note in the scale, counting forward from the root. you can add the 7th note of the scale counting forward...for instance F#m7 would be F# A C# E. it works the same in any scale....

an inversion is simply putting the 3rd, 5th, or 7th of the chord below the root. so F#m7 first inversion is A in the root, and any combination of A, C#, and E above that.

Good information. Just to clear a few things about chords up a bit...

the 1st 3rd and 5th aren't actually from any scale itself when talking about chords. The numbers actually come from the musical staff used to read music.

Intervals and Major chords
Whatever the root note is of any chord is usually the 1st interval of the chord. The exception being when a chord is inverted, but that information can be ignored here. For this explaination we are going to assume that the root note is always the 1st interval. To build a chord: based off of the 1st interval, count on the musical staff, 3 notes up (this includes counting the 1st.) The last note that you count will be called the 3rd interval of the root. Now, starting with the 3rd interval count again, 3 notes up the staff. The last note that you count will be the 3rd interval of the 3rd, it is also the 5th interval of the root. This stacking of thirds builds a chord containing the 1st (or root,) 3rd, and 5th intervals. The chord itself is called a Triad, or also a major barre chord on the guitar.

Minor Chords
Intervals 2, 3, 6, and 7 can be minor or major. When reading sheet music, a major interval and a minor interval will have the same location on the musical staff. The defining attribute is the amount of half steps that are played. For example, in the key of C major, an interval containing a C and E is a major third. But if the E is flattened by one half step it is then called a minor 3rd. So a triad containing the 1st, minor 3rd, and the 5th is called a minor barre chord on the guitar.

Power Chords
Each note generates a specific frequency. When you have two notes, the difference between their frequencies is called the tonal difference. The tonal difference between a 5th interval (the root and 5th) is equal to the frequency of the 3rd interval. This is why 5th interval double stops (a power chord) sound cool.

Inverted Power Chords
By inverting a power chord the root becomes the 4th interval and the 5th interval becomes the root. The tonal difference between a 4th interval is a the minor 3rd interval (or augmented 2nd.) Generally power chords imply a major bar chord while inverted power chords imply a minor bar chord. An example of a 4th interval double stop is D and A. It sounds the same harmonically as a 5th interval double stop of D.

For more complex chords you need to understand how intervals work first.

Scale Patterens

A box pattern of the Major scales (demonstrated using G Major)

On the low E string (by frets)
3rd; 5th; 7th

A string:
3rd; 5th; 7th

D string:
4th; 5th; 7th

G string:
4th; 5th; 7th

B string:
5th; 7th; 8th

High E string:
5th; 7th; 8th

A box pattern of the Minor scales (demonstrated using E minor)

On the low E string (by frets)
zero; 2nd; 3rd

A string:
zero; 2nd; 3rd

D string:
zero; 2nd; 4th

G string:
zero; 2nd

B string:
zero; 1st; 3rd

High E string:
zero; 2nd; 3rd

Whats major and whats minor

The pattern is as follows (using scale steps)

1st - major
2nd - minor
3rd - minor
4th - major
5th - major
6th - minor
7th - diminshed

an easy way to remeber it: most rock songs use a 1, 4, 5 progression; 1, 4, and 5 are the only major scale steps.

Relative minors

In any Major scale the sixth interval (or scale step) is refered to as the Relative minor of the key. In G Major its E minor. You will notice when you play the patterens above that G major and E minor both contain exactly the same notes. This is the case with all Major scales and harmonic minor scales. The difference is that the emphasis of tonality is placed on different notes for each scale.

Modes

In the Major scale the 1st 4th and 5th intervals are Tonal. The 2nd 3rd 6th and 7th are Modal, meaning they are subject to change. To find the unknown chord your probabily are going to have to know what mode (or modes) the melody is in. I would imagine that the chord is from the same mode that the melody is in. Modes are one of the last things to learn in music theory as far as i am aware of.

[The First Don]

Originally Posted by Raydio

Say for instance I make a melody in the key or E Major and want to find that unknown chord that keeps popping up in my head. Im looking for a resource either online or book that not only tells me what chords I can make in the EMajor scale, but also tells me about possible inversions of these chords. Anyone know of any? Thanks

Your asking more about modes then you are chords. You got to learn some things about theory theres no resource for it that i know of.

I learned alot of this stuff from a harmony book. I'm not even half way through it yet.

[famous beagle]

Originally Posted by The First Don

Good information. Just to clear things up a bit...

the 1st 3rd and 5th aren't actually from any scale itself when talking about chords. The numbers actually come from the musical staff used to read music.

Intervals and Major chords
Whatever the root note is of any chord is usually the 1st interval of the chord. The exception being when a chord is inverted, but that information can be ignored here. For this explaination we are going to assume that the root note is always the 1st interval. To build a chord: based off of the 1st interval, count on the musical staff, 3 notes up (this includes counting the 1st.) The last note that you count will be called the 3rd interval of the root. Now, starting with the 3rd interval count again, 3 notes up the staff. The last note that you count will be the 3rd interval of the 3rd, it is also the 5th interval of the root. This stacking of thirds builds a chord containing the 1st (or root,) 3rd, and 5th intervals. The chord itself is called a Triad, or also a major bar chord on the guitar.

Minor Chords
Intervals 2, 3, 6, and 7 can be minor or major. When reading sheet music, a major interval and a minor interval will have the same location on the musical staff. The defining attribute is the amount of half steps that are played. For example, in the key of C major, an interval containing a C and E is a major third. But if the E is flattened by one half step it is then called a minor 3rd. So a triad containing the 1st, minor 3rd, and the 5th is called a minor bar chord on the guitar.

Power Chords
Each note generates a specific frequency. When you have two notes, the difference between their frequencies is called the tonal difference. The tonal difference between a 5th interval (the root and 5th) is equal to the frequency of the 3rd interval. This is why 5th interval double stops (a power chord) sound cool.

Inverted Power Chords
By inverting a power chord the root becomes the 4th interval and the 5th interval becomes the root. The tonal difference between a 4th interval is a the minor 3rd interval (or augmented 2nd.) Generally power chords imply a major bar chord while inverted power chords imply a minor bar chord. An example of a 4th interval double stop is D and A. It sounds the same harmonically as a 5th interval double stop of D.

For more complex chords you need to understand how intervals work first.

Scale Patteren

A box pattern of the Major scales (demonstrated using G Major)

On the low E string (by frets)
3rd; 5th; 7th

A string:
3rd; 5th; 7th

D string:
4th; 5th; 7th

G string:
4th; 5th; 7th

B string:
5th; 7th; 8th

High E string:
5th; 7th; 8th

A box pattern of the Minor scales (demonstrated using E minor)

On the low E string (by frets)
zero; 2nd; 3rd

A string:
zero; 2nd; 3rd

D string:
zero; 2nd; 4th

G string:
zero; 2nd

B string:
zero; 1st; 3rd

High E string:
zero; 2nd; 3rd

Relative minor

In any Major scale the sixth interval (or scale step) is refered to as the Relative minor of the key. In G Major its E minor. You will notice when you play the patterens above that G major and E minor both contain exactly the same notes. This is the case with all Major scales and harmonic minor scales. The difference is the emphasis is placed on different notes for each scale.

Modes

In the Major scale the 1st 4th and 5th intervals are Tonal. The 2nd 3rd 6th and 7th are Modal, meaning they are subject to change. To find the unknown chord your probabily are going to have to know what mode (or modes) the melody is in. I would imagine that the chord is from the same mode that the melody is in and some sort of harmony of it. Modes are one of the last things to learn in harmonic music theory as far as i am aware of.

This is good information as well, but there's a few things that need to be cleared up.

You said the "root note is usually the 1st interval." I think you meant to say degree or something else. The definition of interval is the distance between two notes, so one note can not be an "interval." Actually, throughout that whole first paragraph you should replace the word "interval" with "degree." A triad does not contain the 1st, 3rd, and 5th intervals of a scale; it contains the 1st, 3rd, and 5th degrees. Again, an interval is the measurement of the distance of two notes.

You kept referring to bar chords. First of all, it's spelled "barre" instead of "bar," but that's not the main thing.

The thing I wanted to point out is that not all chords are barre chords. It's possbile to play a triad (root, 3rd, and 5th) without playing a barre chord.



A barre chord usually refers to when one finger is barred across three strings or more. A half-barre is sometimes used (in classical guitar mostly) for three strings or two strings.

Generally, however, "barre chord" refers to E-form and E-minor form chords played with a 6th-string root and A-form and A-minor form chords played from a 5th-string root. The first finger is used to "barre" across the strings, hence the name.

Anyway, I'm sure you knew what a barre chord was; I was just unsure why you kept calling EVERYTHING a barre.

[The First Don]

Originally Posted by famous beagle

This is good information as well, but there's one thing that needs to be cleared up.

You kept referring to bar chords. First of all, it's spelled "barre" instead of "bar," but that's not the main thing.

The thing I wanted to point out is that not all chords are barre chords. It's possbile to play a triad (root, 3rd, and 5th) without playing a barre chord.

You even referred to a power chord as a barre chord, and it's usually not, actually. If you only play the root and 5th, as you said, it's never a barre chord. If it's inverted into a 4th, that could be barred by one finger, but I certainly wouldn't call that a barre chord. If it's just two notes, I'd probably call it (and I think most people would) a dyad or a double-stop.

A barre chord usually refers to when one finger is barred across three strings or more. A half-barre is sometimes used (in classical guitar mostly) for three strings or two strings.

Generally, however, "barre chord" refers to E-form and E-minor form chords played with a 6th-string root and A-form and A-minor form chords played from a 5th-string root. The first finger is used to "barre" across the strings, hence the name.

Anyway, I'm sure you knew what a barre chord was; I was just unsure why you kept calling EVERYTHING a barre.

read it again

the barre chord consists only of the 1st 3rd and 5th, but i dont think i said all triads are barre chords. But all barre chords are triads.

I called the power chord a 5th interval double stop. A double stop of the 5th interval (power chord) is an implied barre chord because the tonal difference is equal to the 3rd but its not a barre chord in itself. As with a 4th interval double stop but it has an implied minor tonality of a minor triad.

[famous beagle]

Originally Posted by The First Don

read it again

the barre chord consists only of the 1st 3rd and 5th, but i dont think i said all triads are barre chords

I called the power chord a 5th interval double stop. A double stop of the 5th interval (power chord) is an implied barre chord because the tonal difference is equal to the 3rd but its not a barre chord in itself. As with a 4th interval double stop but it has an implied minor tonality of a minor triad.

yeah sorry about the powerchord thing ... I edited after I saw that.

But you did call triads "barre" chords .... and like I said ... they're definitely not always barre chords.

[The First Don]

i called all barre chords triads but not all triads barre chords

by the way thanks for pointing out the spelling i really didnt know that lol

[famous beagle]

Originally Posted by The First Don

read it again

the barre chord consists only of the 1st 3rd and 5th, but i dont think i said all triads are barre chords. But all barre chords are triads.

I called the power chord a 5th interval double stop. A double stop of the 5th interval (power chord) is an implied barre chord because the tonal difference is equal to the 3rd but its not a barre chord in itself. As with a 4th interval double stop but it has an implied minor tonality of a minor triad.

The main thing though is your misuse of the word "interval." Read my (edited) post above to see that. That's an important distinction.

[The First Don]

Originally Posted by The First Don

read it again

the barre chord consists only of the 1st 3rd and 5th, but i dont think i said all triads are barre chords. But all barre chords are triads.

I called the power chord a 5th interval double stop. A double stop of the 5th interval (power chord) is an implied barre chord because the tonal difference is equal to the 3rd but its not a barre chord in itself. As with a 4th interval double stop but it has an implied minor tonality of a minor triad.

Here it is...

What I meant to say was that a 5th interval double stop and 4th interval double stop would be an inplied triad of the 1st 3rd and 5th but not a barre chord.

[The First Don]

Originally Posted by famous beagle

The main thing though is your misuse of the word "interval." Read my (edited) post above to see that. That's an important distinction.

how is it misused?

[famous beagle]

Originally Posted by The First Don

Here it is...

What I meant to say was that a 5th interval double stop and 4th interval double stop would be an inplied triad of the 1st 3rd and 5th but not a barre chord.

I realize that about the power chord. The reference to "interval" I was making is in regards to your paragraph labeled "Intervals and Major Chords"

[The First Don]

Thats a bad title? I thought it would help illustrate how chords are built from intervals. Should I change it to just major chords?

I see what your saying

[famous beagle]

Originally Posted by The First Don

Thats a bad title? I thought it would help illustrate how chords are built from intervals. Should I change it to just major chords?

I think we have a communication gap here.

This is what appeared in your original post:

Originally Posted by the first don

For this explaination we are going to assume that the root note is always the 1st interval. To build a chord: based off of the 1st interval, count on the musical staff, 3 notes up (this includes counting the 1st.) The last note that you count will be called the 3rd interval of the root. Now, starting with the 3rd interval count again, 3 notes up the staff. The last note that you count will be the 3rd interval of the 3rd, it is also the 5th interval of the root. This stacking of thirds builds a chord containing the 1st (or root,) 3rd, and 5th intervals.

And this is the problem with that:

You said the "root note is usually the 1st interval." I think you meant to say degree or something else. The definition of interval is the distance between two notes, so one note can not be an "interval." Actually, throughout that whole first paragraph you should replace the word "interval" with "degree." A triad does not contain the 1st, 3rd, and 5th intervals of a scale; it contains the 1st, 3rd, and 5th degrees. Again, an interval is the measurement of the distance of two notes.

[The First Don]

Originally Posted by famous beagle

I think we have a communication gap here.

This is what appeared in your original post:



And this is the problem with that:

You said the "root note is usually the 1st interval." I think you meant to say degree or something else. The definition of interval is the distance between two notes, so one note can not be an "interval." Actually, throughout that whole first paragraph you should replace the word "interval" with "degree." A triad does not contain the 1st, 3rd, and 5th intervals of a scale; it contains the 1st, 3rd, and 5th degrees. Again, an interval is the measurement of the distance of two notes.

Doesn't the word degree apply to the scale? The chord numbers aren't based off of the scale. They are based off of intervals as you've defined them according to what ive been studing. The author wrote that the numbers of the notes are derived from the intervals between the notes based on the first note of the chord on the musical staff. He said that the 1st interval is called unison.

I think my head is going to explode

[famous beagle]

Originally Posted by The First Don

Doesn't the word degree apply to the scale? The chord numbers aren't based off of the scale. They are based off of intervals as you've defined them according to what ive been studing. The author wrote that the numbers of the notes are derived from the intervals between the notes based on the first note of the chord on the musical staff. He said that the 1st interval is called unison.

I think my head is going to explode

Yes the word "degree" usually applies to the scale, and occasionally it's used in references to chords as well.

For instance, a I chord in the key of C contains the 1st, 3rd, and 5th degrees of the C major scale. When you're talking about the notes of a chord without reference to a scale, however, you usually drop the word degree and just say "1st, 3rd, and 5th." In a D major chord, the root (or 1st) is D, the 3rd is F#, and the 5th is A. Now ... D to F# is a major 3rd interval, and F# to A is a minor 3rd interval, and D to A is a perfect 5th interval (all like you said), but D itself is not an interval. An interval is comprised of two notes.

Like you said, there is such thing as a unison which is simply two occurances of the same note. This is only possible on certain instruments, and guitar is one. It's not possible on ... a piano, for instance. The unison is a little deceptive because it's the same note, but they had to give even that "interval" a name, because sometimes you have to notate that on a staff (that's when you have one stem with a notehead on each side of it on the same line or space).

So, when they say the unison is the first interval, they mean it's the first measurable distance between two notes. Even though it's the same note, there are times when the same note is played by two different strings on a gutar or sung by two different people. The real, actual intervals (with a true measurable "distance" between two notes) start with a minor 2nd, or half step.

[cliff richard]

http://www.looknohands.com/chordhouse/

this is another useful site for both paino and guitar.