surface mount VS real components

[walters]

Whats the difference between surface mount VS real resistors,capacitors,IC chips,transistors?

The surface mount resistors,capacitors,IC chips,transistors for pro audio gear and consoles how does this affect the sound? it sounds cheap and thinner to me why?

The real big fat resistors,capacitors,IC chips,transitors sounds better why?

[bleyrad]

The difference is that SMD's are smaller.
One is not more "real" than the other. They are in fact usually the exact same components. Often IC's are actually the same small size inside either packaging... it's just the size of the mold around the component that's different!

In fact SMD capacitors are usually better than their non-SMD counterparts, and every other type of component of similar spec should perform exactly the same or very similar (often better) as its non-SMD version. And almost always, SMD's have a tighter spec value range.
I don't know how the heck you could have possibly setup any reasonable test to be able to conclude that non-SMD components sound "better." Perhaps if you had electronics experience you could make a 2 boxes, one with SMD's and one with larger components, then do an actual BLIND A/B/X test. But if you had said electronics experience, you wouldn't be asking what the difference is here in the first place.
I think you are deceiving yourself by thinking non-SMD's are better. They aren't.

[evm1024]

And SMD have lower parisitic capacitance and inductance which can be audible in extreme (read that again extreme) cases.

Circuit boards made with SMD are much easier to assemble with robots.

Regards

[walters]

The SM consoles with surface mount and pro audio gear made with surface mount sounds Thin to me

The conventional parts with real caps,resistors,transistors sounds thicker, fatter made with convential parts for a console

A console made with surface mounts the bandwidth and frequency response is limited to thin sounding to me

[The Ghost of FM]

Originally Posted by walters

The SM consoles with surface mount and pro audio gear made with surface mount sounds Thin to me

The conventional parts with real caps,resistors,transistors sounds thicker, fatter made with convential parts for a console

A console made with surface mounts the bandwidth and frequency response is limited to thin sounding to me

If that's the case, for you and your golden ears, then you best look for mixers made in the 50's and 60's before the age of miniaturization.

Cheers!

[Dr ZEE]

Originally Posted by walters

The SM consoles with surface mount and pro audio gear made with surface mount sounds Thin to me

Which exactly consoles are you talking about (brand/model(s)). "SM Consoles"??...hmmmm Soundcraft? wild guess... and what proaudio gear are you talking about, btw not all pro-audio gear 'sound'... some do, some are silent as a stone .

Originally Posted by walters

The conventional parts with real caps,resistors,transistors sounds thicker, fatter made with convential parts for a console

again, which console (brand/model) are you talking about?

**********
a tip for walters:
Take a component of your gear made with real big fat resistors,capacitors,IC chips,transitors which sounds better to you, place it on the surface then use one of THESE ... and you've got it 'surface mount' - neat, compact, durable and still sounds great.

[technoplayer]

.and SMD components have inheritly LESS noise and reliability issues , as a large portion of the teeny tiny wires that connect the active device to the package, and then to the PC Boards, is eliminated. This also means less power required, less heat generated, shorter signal paths, and etc. Some of the highest quality electronics produced are use SM devices.
Of course, you won't get that "vacuum tube" sound. hehe

[bleyrad]

If you have a particular console which uses SMD's, and if it does indeed sound "thin," then that is to be blamed on the design of the console, not the fact that SMD's are used. What in the world made you jump to the conclusion that it was because of SMD's? I don't see that you've come across any reasonable evidence at all.

[BRDTS]

Yes, the world needs more "real big fat resistors". Hey Walters, have you also noticed that "surface mount" resistors sound slightly worse when mounted on the bottom side of the circuit card rather than the top. Why is this?

[technoplayer]

The ones mounted on the back side of the circuit board are 180 degrees out of phase.

[silentman]

I always heard that the small size of the SMD was so that you let out less "smoke" when you screwed something up. You see all of those larger components hold more smoke (hehehe....eh.....eh....)

[evm1024]

....when I worked for Intel I designed and built automated device testers among many other things (I was a technogopher you see) I was building a raster scanner for dynamic ram testing (16 K devices ) anyway the fab manager came in and we started talking and I explained how I was putting all the resistors so that the values could be read left to right.

He paused and then wanted to assure himself that I understood that that did not make any difference electrically. (Actually I think that he thought that his head technogopher was an idiot)

So I took a few moments to expain that I was building this to Mil spec and that I was not thinking of putting it together well but rather I was way ahead and thinking of making it easy to repair.

Took him a moment to realize how this could pay off for just a little extra effort.

My highschool job was assembeling mill spec instruments for Tektronix.

[evm1024]

Originally Posted by walters

The SM consoles with surface mount and pro audio gear made with surface mount sounds Thin to me

The conventional parts with real caps,resistors,transistors sounds thicker, fatter made with convential parts for a console

A console made with surface mounts the bandwidth and frequency response is limited to thin sounding to me

Walters,

We have to meet. I would love to go climbing with you. Trust me, you really should tie that rope around your neck. On Belay!

[walters]

The Wires are smaller and Traces and components are Smaller so thats the
really really THIN sound

I old 50's,60's consoles had real big fat point to point wiring traces were fatter and using Real components

[bleyrad]

Originally Posted by walters

The Wires are smaller and Traces and components are Smaller so thats the
really really THIN sound

Okay, so you're just a troll. I get it now. So funny, ha-ha. Now, go the hell away and stop spreading misinformation which is going to confuse newbies.

For those wondering, small traces are usually better (for audio signal) than wires or thick traces because thinner traces will influence the impedance less than thicker ones.

[BRDTS]

............."The Wires are smaller and Traces and components are Smaller so thats the really really THIN sound............"

Ah yes, I understand. Anyone know where I can buy some of that fat wire? Is it ok to mix "fat wire" with "really fat resistors"? Or do I also need "really fat wire"?

[walters]

impedance less than thicker ones

Yea the thicker point to point wire had Different Impedances inductive and capacitive reactance difference


I think it gave more headroom through the thicker wire

[bleyrad]

Trust me, you need to start worrying about the headroom of your opamps and components long before you start worrying about the headroom of your traces...

Anyway, I'm out of this thread for good. This guy Walter is obviously just trying to start something. I'd suggest to others not to encourage.

[walters]

surface mount components bandwidth,headroom,reactance,impendance must be differenct because they are so so so small thats a really small signal on those traces and going in and out of those small components must change the sound i would thick because they are so small

[walters]

SM has lower impedance

conventional components has higher
Impedances

So thats why is sounds different SM changes the sound because it has lower impedances

[bleyrad]

SMD's have fewer
Monkeys
inside. Components which are Real have more and bigger Monkeys inside doing the work! I've done some serious thinking and this is definitely why SMD's have such a Thin sound, which I have heard from my one shitty Console which sounds Thin and so I think has SM not-real components.

These are the Facts.

My Console has fewer Monkeys and Monkeys are very important towards a Thick sound, which means a good sound.

[Dr ZEE]

Originally Posted by bleyrad

My Console has fewer Monkeys and Monkeys are very important towards a Thick sound, which means a good sound.

From my experiende Twelve Monkeys is a must! Is a must see.... that is.

When Cole arrives in 1996, he meets Jeffrey Goines (Brad Pitt), the unstable son of a renowned scientist...

Walters! see the movie! You'll love it. You'll feel 'home' watching it

[walters]

conventional components can use higher voltage to get more headroom than
SM components can only use small voltages so less headroom

[technoplayer]

Higher voltage gives more headroom?? COOL!!
Know I know what that voltge adjust setting on my Tascam is for. I'll just crank it from 110v to 220v and DOUBLE my headroom!!!

[BRDTS]

So Walters, as I understand the conversation here in your thread, there were twelve monkees..not just four. And the reason their recorded songs never really sounded very good is because they had no headroom and probably weren't using real fat resistors in critical places. Also, conventional component folks are probably boring but those who engage in s&m tend to have lots of headroom, fat wires and lower impedance. And it's a good idea to apply the highest voltage you can get your hands on to any piece of audio equipment. Such as running the line-outs of your console into an ac wall outlet. Why is this?