5 quick questions...before Im on my way to make the room!!!

[Mr Music]

Hello

I have a perfect rectagle room...17 feet long 9 feet wide and 8 feet tall...
Recording in it is horrible...

So I am going to treat it with fiberglass panels...Bass traps and Absorbers...Homemade style...(fiberglass,frames,fabric)

I am planning on putting 3 peices of 2by4 (2inch) on the ceiling...
8 peices of 2by4 (4inch) on the ceiling...
and all around the room on the flat walls 20 peices of 2by4 (2inch)...

When i said 8 peices or 20...its actualy 1 at the bottom and 1 on top..im sure you understand...So 4 corners ill have 4 peices on top and one directly on the bottom etc...same as walls...thast why the number seems so high!

These will include the door and all the windows...

QUESTIONS!

1) When I called in for fiberglass- they asked me if i wanted my one side of the sheet covered...(i did read that the covered side is good for reflection or something, but its also better for absorption lol) but what if i just buy them and not have them covered (it costs 2 times more) and i just make panels out of the NON COVERED REGULAR 703 etc RIGID FIBERGLASS...They said if i wanted the covered side then they would do it for me, but it costs 2 times more...I guess its called paper backing or whatever...Please explain...

2) I dont have anything on my windows (no curtains or blinds)...Can I just hand the panel over the window, about 1 foot away (the farther the better) and will that be fine? I mean, why hang curtains or blinds when you have panels lol...

3) My ceiling is 8 feet...Is it better to have the panels as ONE on top and the other on the bottom when having them on the flat walls...or is it better to have them going like chess...Top= bottom empty, side one put on the bottom and= top empty etc. ?

4) When I buy the 2" rigid fiberglass...and make a 4" bass trap...is there any other things i have to consider other than putting them together...
Do i do anything special to them? Or do i put together a 4" thick frame and put in 2 peices of 2" rigid fiberglass and thats it? cover it up with fabric and we are finished...yes?
Because when i mentioned this to someone- they said something about a special way of doing it...meh...

5) Angled stuff is always good in a perfectly straight room...
What if I were to create little maroon hallow peices and stuff them with fiberglass...and put them on the walls aswell....will that help with reflections...in addition with my absorbers and bass traps that i described earlier...

Thank You...

I would have gone with something expencive, but I was just too inspired by http://www.hp-h.com/p/hapicmpur/homespunStudio.htm

and now Im not even willing to pay for the paper backing LOL!

Thanks in advance...cant wait for the answers so i can get on with the buying and work...

[Mr Music]

additional questions

6) If i were to make the bass traps like this

http://www.hp-h.com/p/hapicmpur/basstraps.htm

rather than this

http://www.ethanwiner.com/BTPlans.gif

will i still be fine with what ive made?

7) I read that its better to have deep bass traps in the corners...but then have the traps alternating as you put them around the room
DEEP-> MID/high-> HIGH->MID/high-> DEEP-> etc etc

I didnt really notice that in Hapicmpur's plan...but should I also try and do something like that and alternate...?



Man o man...if I have these questions answered, ill be a lucky man haha

I seriously dont know any other way of finding this info


thank you!

[curtiswyant]

Originally Posted by Mr Music

Hello

I have a perfect rectagle room...17 feet long 9 feet wide and 8 feet tall...
Recording in it is horrible...

So I am going to treat it with fiberglass panels...Bass traps and Absorbers...Homemade style...(fiberglass,frames,fabric)

I am planning on putting 3 peices of 2by4 (2inch) on the ceiling...
8 peices of 2by4 (4inch) on the ceiling...
and all around the room on the flat walls 20 peices of 2by4 (2inch)...

When i said 8 peices or 20...its actualy 1 at the bottom and 1 on top..im sure you understand...So 4 corners ill have 4 peices on top and one directly on the bottom etc...same as walls...thast why the number seems so high!

These will include the door and all the windows...

QUESTIONS!

1) When I called in for fiberglass- they asked me if i wanted my one side of the sheet covered...(i did read that the covered side is good for reflection or something, but its also better for absorption lol) but what if i just buy them and not have them covered (it costs 2 times more) and i just make panels out of the NON COVERED REGULAR 703 etc RIGID FIBERGLASS...They said if i wanted the covered side then they would do it for me, but it costs 2 times more...I guess its called paper backing or whatever...Please explain...

I bought 2" rockwool with the same density (6pcf), almost the same acoustic specs as 703, and the paper foil backing for about $.52/square foot. I got the paper backing because held the insulation together better than without. The FRK backing can be an advantage and will give you variation if you alternate with it facing in, then out, etc. My panels are "open" so the FRK backing held the junk together. One down

2) I dont have anything on my windows (no curtains or blinds)...Can I just hand the panel over the window, about 1 foot away (the farther the better) and will that be fine? I mean, why hang curtains or blinds when you have panels lol...

you would need a very heavy curtain or blanket. here's what I did. I build a couple movable 6'x2' gobos with hinges so that they were freestanding. This is my mobile vocal booth or I put them in front of windows/doors for temporary room treatment. That's an idea.

3) My ceiling is 8 feet...Is it better to have the panels as ONE on top and the other on the bottom when having them on the flat walls...or is it better to have them going like chess...Top= bottom empty, side one put on the bottom and= top empty etc. ?

I have 8' ceilings and I just made my panels 6'x2'. problem solved. as always, just build a few and experiment.

4) When I buy the 2" rigid fiberglass...and make a 4" bass trap...is there any other things i have to consider other than putting them together...
Do i do anything special to them? Or do i put together a 4" thick frame and put in 2 peices of 2" rigid fiberglass and thats it? cover it up with fabric and we are finished...yes?
Because when i mentioned this to someone- they said something about a special way of doing it...meh...

you want to leave space between the insulation and the wall. the air gap will help absorb lower bass frequencies. so you put 2" insulation in a 4" frame, leaving a 2" air gap between the wall and fiberglass.


5) Angled stuff is always good in a perfectly straight room...
What if I were to create little maroon hallow peices and stuff them with fiberglass...and put them on the walls aswell....will that help with reflections...in addition with my absorbers and bass traps that i described earlier...

you probably want to focus on creating a pretty dead room. i would worry about taming the bass and then fine-tune it later. you can use furniture to create diffusion/reflection etc. experiment!


Thank You...

I would have gone with something expencive, but I was just too inspired by http://www.hp-h.com/p/hapicmpur/homespunStudio.htm

and now Im not even willing to pay for the paper backing LOL!

Thanks in advance...cant wait for the answers so i can get on with the buying and work...

subject subject

[curtiswyant]

Originally Posted by Mr Music

additional questions

6) If i were to make the bass traps like this

http://www.hp-h.com/p/hapicmpur/basstraps.htm

rather than this

http://www.ethanwiner.com/BTPlans.gif

will i still be fine with what ive made?

7) I read that its better to have deep bass traps in the corners...but then have the traps alternating as you put them around the room
DEEP-> MID/high-> HIGH->MID/high-> DEEP-> etc etc

I didnt really notice that in Hapicmpur's plan...but should I also try and do something like that and alternate...?



Man o man...if I have these questions answered, ill be a lucky man haha

I seriously dont know any other way of finding this info


thank you!

either will work fine. the first ones aren't really bass traps, per se. ethan's traps have an air gap and a plywood facing while the others are simple open panels. I build ones like the latter and they work just fine. the bass traps are technically "better" but if you use panels with an air gap, you're 90% there.

[Mr Music]

Originally Posted by curtiswyant

subject subject

?


thanks i guess

is there anyone else who can answer me in better detail?



ANYYYYOOONNNEEEEEE???????????????????????????????????

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

When I called in for fiberglass- they asked me if i wanted my one side of the sheet covered...

No, regular 703 will be just fine. BTW, who is this that will put a layer of something on one face? Are you sure this is OWENS CORNING 703? I would find out for sure, as I believe a dealer adding something to a product such as 703 would place a liability on OC should anything happen. Its ok for you to do it, but as a dealer, they are RE SELLING a product. If this product is altered, and because of some wierd response such as a fire in a duct or anything, OC could be held responsible. Hmmm, I'd find out about that.

an I just hand the panel over the window, about 1 foot away (the farther the better) and will that be fine? I mean, why hang curtains or blinds when you have panels lol...

As long as you don't expect the FIBERGLASS panel to "soundproof" the window. It will do nothing in that regard. However, as an absorber, fiberglass doesn't care what the boundary behind it is....as long as there is a boundary, 1/4 wavelength absorption will occur. Actually, fiberglass will absorb, no matter if there is a boundary or not. But it is the boundary which sets up a condition whereby when a soundwave meets it, there is ZERO velocity of the air molecules, but MAXIMUM pressure occurs. At 1/4 wavelengths, MAXIMUM VELOCITY but ZERO pressure occurs. That is why the thickness of the fiberglass has better absorption coefficients for those frequencies whos 1/4 wavelenth distances are within the fiberglass. It is the motion of air molecules between pressure nodes that meets a resistance within the fiberglass fiber "interstices" . This resistance causes molecular motion energy into heat. By increasing the distance of the face of the fiberglass to the boundary, you are in effect, adding thickness to the panel, which translates into absorption of LONGER 1/4 wavelengths..which means lower frequencies. Within reason though. 2" fiberglass, spaced one inch of a wall, will approximate the absorption coefficients of 3" fiberglass.

Is it better to have the panels as ONE on top and the other on the bottom when having them on the flat walls...or is it better to have them going like chess...Top= bottom empty, side one put on the bottom and= top empty etc. ?

It depends on what you are trying to achieve and where. Let me put it this way. Because of diffraction, a checkerboard pattern of 2x2 foot panels on a wall will absorb MORE in SABINES than the same square footage as one piece.
It will also give a good start at diffusion, as you will have both reflective and absorbant areas distributed in a pattern which sets up impedence differentials. At least thats my take on it. Study of this phenomena is ongoing in labs around the world. It is called the "edge effect", of which there are TWO theorys. One is a diffraction oriented absorption principle, and another is the EXPOSED EDGES of the material adding square footage theory. There are people who argue constantly about this. I'm not sure who is right, as the arguments for both sides sound logical and scientific. Who knows. But it does exist. However, at areas like the sidewalls of the mixing position, you may want absorption floor to ceiling, or depending on if you have splayed walls, maybe not. Personally, my studio is prepared for a LEDE design, whereby the whole front of the room is absorbtion, and the rear has corner absorbers and diffusers. The point is to obtain the flattest response in the room possible I beleive.

When I buy the 2" rigid fiberglass...and make a 4" bass trap...is there any other things i have to consider other than putting them together...

I take it you are leaving an airgap behind the fiberglass, correct? Good. It will impove absorption at lower frequencies. Besides that, knowing how you plan on hanging determines what you have to do to the panel to acheive this. A reveal or a special look, or a special hanger, or any number of design elements can alter how you build and cover the panels. Personally, I am using whats known as FABRILOK vinyl extrusions, that allow me to place the fiberglass panels anywhere I want, and create a FABRIC design anyway I want, since the FABRILOK strips allow for simple insertion of the fabric into the edges of the strips, which also hold it tight. No staples, glue, velcro......nothin...just push the fabric into the strips and VOILA...done deal.

What if I were to create little maroon hallow peices and stuff them with fiberglass...and put them on the walls aswell....will that help with reflections.

Maroon hallow peices??? Please explain. Stuff them with what type of fiberglass....and stuff into what?? Anything on a wall that has depth will diffuse some frequencies somewhat. Absorption is another animal alltogether. Without knowing what it is you are talking about, it's impossible to tell whether they offer any benifit at all.
The big problem in small rooms is Low frequency. Most small rooms could use all the low frequency absorption they can get. Since room modes terminate in corners(even wall/floor and wall ceiling intersections) that is where most of your treatment should be aimed at. Think of filling the wall to wall and wall to ceiling corners with SUPERCHUNKS of 703 or Rockwool . This will do more for low frequency absorption than darn near anything. Here is an picture of one laying on the floor for testing. These are made by cutting a 2x4 foot panel of 703 in half to get TWO -2'x2' squares. Then cut these diagonally and stack them in a corner, or build a frame to support them at the ceiling wall intersection. OR you could even use them on the floor as shown, although they take up square footage of the room that way. I think it takes SIX-4" thick 2'x4' panels to make a corner absorber 8' hight. That means it takes 24 panels to fill all four wall/wall corners. Anyway, this design has been tested by Auralux, along with their own proprietary foam corner design. The results are similar. However, superchunks of 703 are much cheaper I believe.
fitZ