Tascam MSR-16 or TSR-8? Help quick!

[ultrajosh]

Tonight (in about 4 hours) I'm meeting with a guy who has both for sale and I plan to come home with one or the other. I was originally looking for a TSR-8 but since he also has the MSR-16 it got me to thinking.

It seems to me that 8 tracks on 1/2" would give better quality than squeezing 16 tracks on there, but the versatility of having 16 tracks to work with is also appealing.

On the other hand, I am attracted by the simplicity/zen of working in only 8 tracks, and my intuition tells me there's less to break on an 8-track machine, it would be less finicky about alignment and more reliable over the long run. Is my thinking correct?

Any experience/input on this would be greatly appreciated. Also, do all TSR-8's have integrated dbx or was this an option?

One last thing, what's the best way to check the heads for wear? e.g. what am I looking for specifically?

[jpmorris]

Originally Posted by ultrajosh

It seems to me that 8 tracks on 1/2" would give better quality than squeezing 16 tracks on there, but the versatility of having 16 tracks to work with is also appealing.

On the other hand, I am attracted by the simplicity/zen of working in only 8 tracks, and my intuition tells me there's less to break on an 8-track machine, it would be less finicky about alignment and more reliable over the long run. Is my thinking correct?

Any experience/input on this would be greatly appreciated. Also, do all TSR-8's have integrated dbx or was this an option?

One last thing, what's the best way to check the heads for wear? e.g. what am I looking for specifically?

Just quickly, here's my opinion/observations:

All TSRs have DBX.

TSRs are more common than the MSR. Also the headstack and most other tape-facing parts of the transport on the TSR-8 are compatible with the Model 38 and probably the Model 80 as well so parts will be relatively easy to obtain by cannibalisation if that becomes necessary. I can't speak for the MSR-16 but the 8-track heads will be a lot cheaper and obtainable.

I plan to get another TSR-8 and try locking the pair together to obtain 14 tracks. I can also use the other as a copy machine or spare when 8 tracks is sufficient.

[BRDTS]

dbx is built in to tsr8. Can be turned off or on.

There are gazillions of opinions. Here's mine...

Is there also an audio pc somewhere in this equation? If you're dumping those analog tracks to pc after recording, go with the tsr8 as it has a "marginally" wider, deeper sound than the msr16 for some types of things such as drums ...BUT MY ADVICE DOESN'T MEAN MUCH IF YOU HAVE NOT COMPARED MACHINES SIDE BY SIDE AND HAVE PICKED THIS OUT FOR YOURSELF. I put that in caps because unless you've actually sat next to a tsr8 and an msr16 and a 1" 8track or bigger for a few hours/days/months, you'll never know the diff. When I say that to my ears these Tascam machines are marginally different from each other, that's what I really mean ..."marginal".

If you are NOT dumping to pc..ie:, this is your sole means for recording, I'd get the msr16 because it will give you the widest type of multitrack recording experience...particularly when you get to the stage of submixing tracks on one machine to open tracks etc (which you will certainly do someday, especially if you begin exploring the full range of engineering aspects of recording sound). And the msr16 sound will do.

The msr16 is essentially a track structure that is more squished than even an old 3340 was. But it sounds pretty good and owners seem to like them a lot.

My msr24 represents tracks on one inch tape that are more squished than my 16 track, one inch 8516bs. The 8516 sounds better to my ears than the msr24...sometimes....on some things. Somewhat. Is this due to the wider tracks? Maybe. Electronics differences? Maybe. But whatever it is, it's marginal. And If I only had one of the two multitracks to work with, I'd certainly pick the 24...because lots of tracks are valuable to the way I work.

most of my work now is on computer. I routinely record on any number of Tascam 8-16-or 24 tracks around here and then immediately dump to the pc. I don't always think much on which machine to pick. The all work and sound pretty close for my purposes.

[ultrajosh]

Eek. Well, I done did it. I bought the MSR-16... S that is. I didn't realize it was the 16S til I got it home. So it has Dolby S and not dbx - is this a good or bad thing?

It came with 6 3M 966 tapes, 2 take-up reels, a test tape, a full-function remote, 2 long Hosa snakes, and the service manual, all for $800. I think this is a good deal but I suppose I could be wrong given my tape-newbie-ness. The guy said I could bring it back if it had problems. He works in an electronics repair place - I suppose that could be a double-edged sword.

In any case it was a heckuvalot cheaper than the digital setup I was looking at and hopefully will sound better. Most importantly I can spend my time making music instead of hunching over a computer wiggling a mouse around.

One reason I chose the MSR-16S is that the TSR-8 heads looked VERY worn - I examined them with a magnifying glass and a flashlight. Both heads were worn more on one side than the other, at an angle. The head with the black lines (record head?) was worn to the point that the lines were nearly worn away in places. Maybe this isn't a big deal but it seemed suspicious to me.

In contrast, the MSR-16S head (the one with the 16 lines) looks nearly brand new. The other head (erase head?) looks slightly worn but the wear is even.

So far I have threaded one of the used tapes in and hit play and the meters all dance. I haven't hooked it up to my mixer, yet. I just have a little Mackie 1202 at the moment; an 80's Soundworkshop 1280 is hopefully in the mail. I got the 1280 since I was planning to get an 8-track recorder - I guess it will do for now, and I can always hook the Mackie into the other channels.

As far as the tapes go, are these 3M 966 tapes any good? The seller said the deck was biased to work with these tapes - how would I check this and what other tape can I use?

[Beck]

Great deal!

The MSR-16S uses Dolby S noise reduction instead of dbx. That's good.

3M 996 is a good tape and is very close to Quantegy GP9. In fact, Quantegy bought 3M's magnetic tape technology and GP9 is based on 996. You will get good results with GP9 with no adjustments. However, you will get the best results if you have the machine tweaked for whatever tape you use.

Erase heads look a lot different. It may not be worn. If the the rec/play head and the guides and lifters look good everything is good.

-Tim

[A Reel Person]

You applied all the requisite common sense with the checkout procedure, and it sounds like you got a great deal!

Dolby S is reputed to be better NR than dbx, but that's just what I've heard on recording boards like this, and I cannot verify that first hand. All my Tascams are of the dbx variety, and I've always had great appreciation for dbx, based on personal experience.

With the condition of the deck and the accessories, it sounds like a killer deal! There's a bit of comfort that the seller offered a repair warranty of sorts! You don't always find that, and it's very much in your favor of having a sound and satisfactory gear purchase.