okay, ive finished mixing but im a little stuck?

[jamtheguitarman]

ive finished all my mixing and traking today but i am a little stuck. at various points during the song, the master output peaks occasionally, i cant hear any clipping but the meter still goes into the red momenterally. i am trying to get rid of this as i assume its bad news, is it problem?
i tried sticking a limiter on it but that did some wierd stuff, it just kept making this sound like it was pulling all the tracks in and out, if you get what i mean.(sorry, very badly explained.) how should i get rid of these peaks?
turning the master fader down seems stupid as it only peaks very small a dozen or so times. i also tried a compressor which stopped the peaking but did some wierd stuff to the synth.

thanks
jamie

[FALKEN]

if it peaks a dozen times bring the volume down.

[Massive Master]

It seems as if you're pushing the volume beyond where it wants to be.

[mixsit]

Are you in a daw? Go in and find the track(s) source of the peaks and pull them down at the spikes.
If your not automated, on a mixer, it's masking tape with lots of little level-change marks on them..
Wayne

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by jamtheguitarman

at various points during the song, the master output peaks occasionally, i cant hear any clipping but the meter still goes into the red momenterally. i am trying to get rid of this as i assume its bad news, is it problem?

Yes it is.

It sounds like you're saying that the individual track levels are OK but when you mix down to stereo the mixdown clips in places. The fix for this is easy. Go back to your individual tracks in your editing software and drop the volume of each track slightly and by the same amount. This will have the effect of dropping the total overal volume of your mixdown without affecting the quality or balance of the actual mix. How much you need to drop each track depends on how hot your peaks are and how many total tracks you have, but you shouldn't have to drop it too much. Anywhere from a half a dB to two dB per track should suffice. Start at a half-dB per track and mixdown. If that's not enough then go to a full dB per track and mixdown again. Repeat if necessary.

G.

[jamtheguitarman]

ok thanks, ill go and move each track sown a few db. by the way, im using Cubase SL3, i dont have any mastering software.

It sounds like you're saying that the individual track levels are OK but when you mix down to stereo the mixdown clips in places

i havent yet mixed down.

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by jamtheguitarman

ok thanks, ill go and move each track sown a few db. by the way, im using Cubase SL3, i dont have any mastering software.



i havent yet mixed down.

Whoah, there, Seabiscuit. Dropping each track a few dB right from the start could be too much and you'll just have to work harder to recover it properly in the mastering stage. Be patient and start slow. Especially if you have a lit of tracks (more than three or four).

G.

[jamtheguitarman]

well i just did it. everything seems to be okay now. whats my next step. do i do a mix down, bring the stereo file back into cubase and have some fun with a limiter or something?

[tommy mas]

I know im gonna get crap for saying this, but oh well..

Don't be afraid of the red.. it is true that on digital software, b/c it's all about numbers, anything that goes above 0 or in the red, will technically be distorted and not sound good but this does not always mean that the RED is bad, or at least from my experience.

I feel that if it doesn't sound distorted, and it is in the red, then you are cool.

Just cuz its in the red, does not mean that you are messing up, well maybe techincally you are, and maybe to a really trained ear someone could hear a little digital distortion, but for the most part, mixing in the red is only bad when you hear distortion.

I mix in the red all the time, and to my mixes are clear, thumping, and not distorted.

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by jamtheguitarman

well i just did it. everything seems to be okay now. whats my next step. do i do a mix down, bring the stereo file back into cubase and have some fun with a limiter or something?

Yeah, that's pretty much the plan. What to do with the mixdown depends upon what you feel the mixdown needs. Glad you got past this hurdle.

G.

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by tommy mas

I know im gonna get crap for saying this, but oh well..

Don't be afraid of the red.. it is true that on digital software, b/c it's all about numbers, anything that goes above 0 or in the red, will technically be distorted and not sound good but this does not always mean that the RED is bad, or at least from my experience.

I feel that if it doesn't sound distorted, and it is in the red, then you are cool.

Just cuz its in the red, does not mean that you are messing up, well maybe techincally you are, and maybe to a really trained ear someone could hear a little digital distortion, but for the most part, mixing in the red is only bad when you hear distortion.

I mix in the red all the time, and to my mixes are clear, thumping, and not distorted.

If you can't hear the difference, then what's the point of letting it clip?

I'll answer that for you; you're not clipping for effect, you're clipping for convenience. It's a justification for a lazy and improper way of boosting your RMS volume without properly processing your signal. "Just turn it up, the clipping don't matter." Why do it right when you can get away with doing it fast, right?

G.

[tommy mas]

what im saying is, i hear the difference..

for example, i will be working on a mix, that has the master level below the red, and it will sound ok, but will be low... when i turn up the volume on the indivudual tracks (according to how much each one needs to be boosted) and boost the master meeter into the red, i hear that the mix sounds much richer, fuller, louder, and at the same time, not distorting.

of course if I was mixing, and I turned up the volume to get the meter in the red, but all I heard was distortion and it didnt sound good, i would lower it out of the red..

but what im trying to say is, sometimes you can mix in the red and it is fine, at least in my opinion.

[jamtheguitarman]

well, that seemed easy enough . i mixed it down and fired up the Classic series free limiter, stuck on the first preset and the volume shot up . now its perfectly situated in the yellow . ill try and post the song on here today\tommorow and see how it goes. is that me done

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by tommy mas

for example, i will be working on a mix, that has the master level below the red, and it will sound ok, but will be low... when i turn up the volume on the indivudual tracks (according to how much each one needs to be boosted) and boost the master meeter into the red, i hear that the mix sounds much richer, fuller, louder, and at the same time, not distorting.

Which is exactly what I described. You are ignoring the fact that you're clipping as an easy way to boost your RMS levels to make the mix sound louder.

If you knew how to do it properly, you'd be able to boost your volume without clipping and it would most likely sound even better than it already does. You might even be able to get *more* volume and "richness" out of your mix that way. It's called "premastering the mixdown" and it's a full one third of the job of "recording" that you're ignoring.

G.

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by jamtheguitarman

well, that seemed easy enough . i mixed it down and fired up the Classic series free limiter, stuck on the first preset and the volume shot up . now its perfectly situated in the yellow . ill try and post the song on here today\tommorow and see how it goes. is that me done

Hey jam, if you're happy with the result, then it's done

But there's a few things that you'll learn (hopefully along with tommy) as the days go by:

1.) No, it is not that easy unless you're really lucky or really forgiving of your sound. Doing a great job of pre-mastering (the part of the process that's applied after mixing down) is often almost as involved as the mixing itself, and rarely involves just putting a limiter on the first preset and letting it fly (no more than just pumping the volume 'till its as loud as you want, clipping be damned). That may have improved the result, but I'd hazard it to be a pretty safe guess that there's still a lot of room for improvement. As you read this forum and get feedback on your efforts, you'll learn the processes that are involved in sqeezing the best out of a mixdown and making it shine as bright as it should.

2.) Never NEVER assume that you'll automatically be throwing a limiter on the mixdown. While it's true that a limiter is used on most mixdowns, that should be a decision that's made due to an analysis of how the mixdown sounds, looks and feels, not as an automatic thing that done no matter what. I've had mixdowns where throwing a limiter on it made it sound worse instead of better.

3.) A year from now you'll go back and listen to today's result (if you still have it then) and chuckle and say to yourself either, "What was I thinking?" or "Boy have I improved." Much of that improvement is going to come from what you learn between now and then about (pre)mastering the mixdown.

4.) Sometime in the next 36 hours you're going to compare your result with a commercial CD and you're going to want to come running back to this forum and ask, "How come my mix doesn't sound as good or loud as my CDs do." Don't. This question comes up in this forum several times a week. Just do a forum search on that topic and you'll find scores of threads with hundreds of responses chock full of good information on that topic.

The search results from #4 along with the responses you'll get when you post your song (don't take them personally if they sound harsh) will be the start of your new learning experience that will take you to that point next year where you'll be chuckling.

G.

[Cloneboy Studio]

Originally Posted by tommy mas

I mix in the red all the time, and to my mixes are clear, thumping, and not distorted.

Sound examples please.

[tommy mas]

www.soundclick.com/teamfacelift

www.teamfacelift.com

examples here...

[tommy mas]

i usually mix so its about 4 or 5 db over the red in the master meter..

im sure this is looked down upon, and considered wrong, but i never have gone outside of my house to mix or master, and im pretty pleased with the results...

[Blue Bear Sound]

Originally Posted by tommy mas

I mix in the red all the time, and to my mixes are clear, thumping, and not distorted.

Originally Posted by tommy mas

www.soundclick.com/teamfacelift

examples here...

Originally Posted by tommy mas

i usually mix so its about 4 or 5 db over the red in the master meter..

im sure this is looked down upon, and considered wrong, but i never have gone outside of my house to mix or master, and im pretty pleased with the results...

Got news for you, skippy... your mixes are COMPLETELY distorted... they sound awful -- a great example of digital distortion at its finest. The kick drum sounds like a fart - a wet one, at that....

You better start listening to the wise people here who are telling you the PROPER techniques, because clearly, you have no concept of what good clean sound is....

[Cloneboy Studio]

Originally Posted by tommy mas

I mix in the red all the time, and to my mixes are clear, thumping, and not distorted.

There is marked distortion on the kick, the release tail of the "piano" and many of the vocals. This doesn't sound good nor professional. I think you should refine your mixing techniques to conform to the standard.

God help you if you were doing music that wasn't simple to produce like hip hop. I shudder to imagine any rock or metal produced using your anti-method.

The sad thing is your mixes aren't even sufficiently "loud" by today's standards.

If you are at all interested in making quality sounding audio you have to lose this bad habit. And if you aren't interested in learning to mix right, at least don't spread your disease. There's already PLENTY of duff sounding recordings out there in the world.

[Cloneboy Studio]

Since I've offered some criticism I'll back it up with some advice:

This is how I approach a mixdown--first off, I'm planning for my *MASTER* before I ever press record. I chart out the number of anticipated tracks I'm going to be recording based on the song/instrumentation and how I'm going to be miking elements. Once I have a track count I calculate the volume level I need to be recording at; the reason I do this is so whether I have 16, 24 or 128 tracks my mixdown will comfortably hit a -6db volume level.

My formula: 24 tracks = record at -12db, and for every additional 24 tracks reduce volume by 3db. (So 48 tracks at -15db each).

This is a quick and dirty rule that takes into account compression, the fact that some elements may be *far* down in the mix and so forth. It is a good rule of thumb that will get you close to the goal of a -6db summed mixdown.

After everything is recorded I will mix with the goal in mind that -6db is the absolute peak the recording can get to, allowing for the occasional spike that may hit at -4db or so.

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES LET ANYTHING EVEN COME CLOSE TO CLIPPING IN YOUR MIXDOWN!

Lately I've been putting a few light effects on my mixdowns, typically Analog Channel 1 and 2, to simulate a mixdown to 2" tape. Every once in a while (and for heavier music styles) I may feel that the Bombfactory Slightly Rude Compressor used very, very lightly benefits a track on mixdown.

Once you have the mixdown set the master should be easy if you did your job right and didn't clip anything, and the mix already sounds great. Slap on some light compression, maybe a little bit of EQ, maybe tighten the extreme low end with a filter, slam the levels a bit with some peak limiting like the Oxford Inflator (what I use) and call it a day.

There are rules (like digital clipping = bad), but they are easy to follow and even a noob with halfway decent ears can hear that it's bad.

[jamtheguitarman]

maybe tighten the extreme low end with a filter,

care to elaborate? how do you go about doing this?

I mix in the red all the time, and to my mixes are clear, thumping, and not distorted.

it was either my crappy computer speakers or the song i put on had a ton of distortion on the snare, every hit.

[Cloneboy Studio]

Originally Posted by jamtheguitarman

care to elaborate? how do you go about doing this?

In general, most frequencies below 40hz are worthless as far as playback/reproduction is concerned. The amount of energy required to create those freq's--which aren't often reproduced by most speakers--can sap your mix of vitality, punch and power.

Because those freq's are sometimes hard to accurately gauge and hear, I will often take a peek with a spectrum analyzer to see how much attenuation you need.

Actually performing the tweak is simple: throw in an Oxford EQ HP/LP filter and set it up with a slope befitting how much sub-bass you need to lose.

[tommy mas]

thanks for the feedback, and i appreciate all the criticism because that only makes me better..

but...

to me, and i am sure you guys have much better ears, my mixes dont sound distorted, they sound fine..

this has been gone over a million times, but the reason i always mix in the red, and to my ears it doesnt sound distorted, is that it is simply not loud enough when kept around -6 db in the mix. so just by adding compression and limiters that will boost the final volume in my mix????

[jamtheguitarman]

well the frustration kicked in today. id pretty much got it finnished but for some reason everything got louder at one point. after trying to figuer out what happened i relised all my multi-band compresor settings had set back to Zero . i have absolutly no idea why. hopefully i will be done tommorow.