any drummers that can recommend a decent program....

[goodbyebluesky]

Any serious drummers here that can recommend a decent program to create realistic sounding heavy rock/vintage rock patterns?

Drum machines are out of the question for me. They'll only allow a few short beats, with a couple of pre-programmed fills. Fine for guitar virtuoso or songwriter who just need a decent beat behind them and haven't a clue how to program a beat.
I want ultimate control to program a song measure by measure, beat by beat- with minimal repetition. I know how to play drums (and can decently program beats) so I want good drum tracks to support to the stuff I'm writing, for the drums to be an integral part and not just a beat and occasional fill in the background. (like the way Mike Portnoy's drumming is a part of Dream Theater's sound for example)
I Downloaded a demo of PC drummer, and its so terrible. Horrible unrealistic crash sounds that don't sustain, the open hi-hat won't even ring out for more than just the beat its assigned to, doesn't allow for complex beats at all because the most you can divide up a measure is by 8th note divisions.

What is there out there for someone like myself who can't record live drums but is so picky about what I put behind my music since I still consider myself a drummer?

[travelin travis]

Originally Posted by goodbyebluesky

Any serious drummers here that can recommend a decent program to create realistic sounding heavy rock/vintage rock patterns?

Drum machines are out of the question for me. They'll only allow a few short beats, with a couple of pre-programmed fills. Fine for guitar virtuoso or songwriter who just need a decent beat behind them and haven't a clue how to program a beat.
I want ultimate control to program a song measure by measure, beat by beat- with minimal repetition. I know how to play drums (and can decently program beats) so I want good drum tracks to support to the stuff I'm writing, for the drums to be an integral part and not just a beat and occasional fill in the background. (like the way Mike Portnoy's drumming is a part of Dream Theater's sound for example)
I Downloaded a demo of PC drummer, and its so terrible. Horrible unrealistic crash sounds that don't sustain, the open hi-hat won't even ring out for more than just the beat its assigned to, doesn't allow for complex beats at all because the most you can divide up a measure is by 8th note divisions.

What is there out there for someone like myself who can't record live drums but is so picky about what I put behind my music since I still consider myself a drummer?

DFHS looks pretty damn good to me. I currently have BFD but for the same amount of money, you could get DFHS. Either one can be found for about $250-$300. There is also the Custom and Vintage version of DFHS. I have'nt tried it, only listened to sample tracks but it sounds very good. I have a loaner Tama Rockstar kit so I'm gonna start experimenting with recording real drums. Both BFD and DFHS have alot of options and flexibility. I think that DFHS would come out on top though.

[goodbyebluesky]

Does DSFH work as a stand-alone program? I want to keep the computer at a minimal role in my recording, its in a totally different room and used by the whole family.
This might have been answered in another thread so I'll look, but was just puttin the question out there........

[travelin travis]

Originally Posted by goodbyebluesky

Does DSFH work as a stand-alone program? I want to keep the computer at a minimal role in my recording, its in a totally different room and used by the whole family.
This might have been answered in another thread so I'll look, but was just puttin the question out there........

DFHS is a complete stand alone prog. DFH is not. To use DFHS you will need a pretty beefy system and a dedicated pc for recording would be best. You can check out the requirements and some samples at www.toontrack.com.

[amonte]

Not to steer this topic off course, but how exactly do you make drum patterns with these programs? Do they come with some sort of sequencer? I was always under the impression that they were just a library of sounds.

[travelin travis]

Originally Posted by amonte

Not to steer this topic off course, but how exactly do you make drum patterns with these programs? Do they come with some sort of sequencer? I was always under the impression that they were just a library of sounds.

you record the midi information with your recording software.

[ColdAsh]

I'd reccomend you have a look here http://www.rayzoon.com/ at Jamstix, it more for someone who doesnt know much about drums but it can be realy usefull for those who like to program thier drums. And its dead cheap too! I bought it a couple of days ago and love it. Id reccomend getting additional drum samples from DFH or BFD.

[MadAudio]

Originally Posted by goodbyebluesky

Drum machines are out of the question for me. They'll only allow a few short beats, with a couple of pre-programmed fills.

You need to learn more about drum machines, then. Most drum machines have two modes - pattern and song. The pattern mode is for creating measured patterns, while the song mode is used to arrange patterns into a whole songs. Even an SR-16 is capable of sequencing different patterns into a song. It also can have a fill associated with a certain pattern and can be created by the user.

[goodbyebluesky]

Originally Posted by MadAudio

You need to learn more about drum machines, then. Most drum machines have two modes - pattern and song. The pattern mode is for creating measured patterns, while the song mode is used to arrange patterns into a whole songs. Even an SR-16 is capable of sequencing different patterns into a song. It also can have a fill associated with a certain pattern and can be created by the user.

I am familiar with drum machines.
But I want to create drum parts, be able to copy/paste it where I want, modify for slight variations (which is how a REAL drummer would sound- I AM a drummer so I know how I would play something if given total freedom and it wouldn't be just verse/chorus/fill/etc/etc)
I want the drums to BREATHE. To be as independant as the rest of the music.
Plainly put, I don't want PATTERNS arranged in a song. Does Danny Carey from TOOL play "patterns arranged in a song"? No, his playing has subtle changes and variations and myriads of rhythms through the course of the song. Not easily duplicated by a drum machine.
Was never convinced I can get what I want from a drum machine, and I'm still not. For the money DFH 2 is lookng mighty good to me. Thank you for all the suggestions you guys have had.

[I ate my bass]

Originally Posted by goodbyebluesky

Any serious drummers here that can recommend a decent program to create realistic sounding heavy rock/vintage rock patterns?

Drum machines are out of the question for me. They'll only allow a few short beats, with a couple of pre-programmed fills. Fine for guitar virtuoso or songwriter who just need a decent beat behind them and haven't a clue how to program a beat.
I want ultimate control to program a song measure by measure, beat by beat- with minimal repetition. I know how to play drums (and can decently program beats) so I want good drum tracks to support to the stuff I'm writing, for the drums to be an integral part and not just a beat and occasional fill in the background. (like the way Mike Portnoy's drumming is a part of Dream Theater's sound for example)
I Downloaded a demo of PC drummer, and its so terrible. Horrible unrealistic crash sounds that don't sustain, the open hi-hat won't even ring out for more than just the beat its assigned to, doesn't allow for complex beats at all because the most you can divide up a measure is by 8th note divisions.

What is there out there for someone like myself who can't record live drums but is so picky about what I put behind my music since I still consider myself a drummer?

godbybsky.....I am a bass player/gtrst/singer that has been playing the drums seriously for only a couple years now, Im getting to be "okay", but I couldnt lay down a perfect 4 min studio recording if my ass depended on it.

So........heres my secret.

I use fruity loops producer edition 5.0.
dont laugh til youve heard my stuff.
I have had several stand alone machines, they all sucked. Ive tried to use some other software, didnt like it either. FLstudio is brutally easy to use and its adjustable beyond all belief, comes loaded w killer samples, and can be "humanized" as easy as stretching a pattern block w your mouse.
I dont use the program all alone, I do all my fills and cymbal crashes live w my kit and my crappy mics, this way I can say"yeah thats me on the drums" ....BUT THATS NOT REQUIRED AT ALL, THE PROGGIE ITSELF CAN AND WILL DO IT ALL.
Now I havent tried to rip out any portnoy style beats or anything dream theatre-ish, but I bet that fl will do it w no issues.
Its infinitly adjustable in ways you would never expect,You can adjust every aspect of everything, and the web site is totally full of plug-ins and help as well.

Ya wanna make sure ya have almost a gig of ram, or a mac, its kinda a resource hog and will make some clicky-crackly sounds if your short on ram when your doing "live" adjustments or changes, other than that ........I love it.
heres a couple tunes i did w fl studio.
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page...?bandID=359651

check out "the way", and "just a game".....fl studio in action recorded on a daw w some middle of the road outboard stuff and a mackie board.


hope this helps...rock on.

[I ate my bass]

Originally Posted by MadAudio

You need to learn more about drum machines, then. Most drum machines have two modes - pattern and song. The pattern mode is for creating measured patterns, while the song mode is used to arrange patterns into a whole songs. Even an SR-16 is capable of sequencing different patterns into a song. It also can have a fill associated with a certain pattern and can be created by the user.

this is just my opinion, not an attempt to start an argument, so please keep that in mind.

An alesis SR-16 will give this guy exactly what he DOESNT WANT.

[metalhead28]

Actually you can do all of the stuff you're saying with a drum machine like the Boss Dr-770 if you know how to use it. However I think the sounds are still lacking. The pattern/song thing is totally customizable. You could create 200 slight variations of a pattern that you created yourself and arrange them in any way or arrange them so that none of them ever repeat. You would just be talking about alot of programming.
I use DFH superior. It is not a stand alone program. It must have a sequencer host. You can make it run on its own for use with e-drums but that is a different story. I don't think you can get a better drum software package, especially if you're citing Portnoy as a reference, as DFHS has great rock/metal sounds. The only limit to the realism is in your programming skills. And for the record if you are looking for amazing sounding and realistic drums and are not interested in hardware drum machines, then be ready for a computer INTENSIVE program. No way you're going to minimize computer involvement.

[HapiCmpur]

Originally Posted by I ate my bass

An alesis SR-16 will give this guy exactly what he DOESNT WANT.

I can't see why you'd say that. The Alesis is almost infinitely editable (like my DR-770), so the user can create a whole song with it, using its pre-set patterns and fills. Then if you want to you can go back and edit any measure or measures in as many different ways as you like in order to imitate the subtle variations a real drummer would produce. And if you don't like the pre-sets, you can create entirely new patterns and fills of your own, save them on the machine, and stitch them together however you want. And since Bluesky's a drummer, that would be a lot easier for him than it would be for most folks.

Drum machines certainly have plenty of limitations and require much patience, but I still don't see why you'd assert that the Alesis is "exactly" what Bluesky "doesn't want." Fill me in.

[I ate my bass]

Originally Posted by goodbyebluesky

?

Drum machines are out of the question for me.

lest start right here maybe.

and we can then continue w the fact that hes asking about software.

The only way ANYONE would EVER reccomend a drum machine over software would be because of a lack of a PC, or they themselves have no current software experience.
I certainly am not going to explain to you the 1000's of reasons why software-pc based drumming is better than an ALESIS 16 bit piece of shit......youll figure that out on your own hopefully.



more questions?

and lastly...drum machines suck.

[HapiCmpur]

Originally Posted by goodbyebluesky

Drum machines are out of the question for me.

Originally Posted by I ate my bass

lest start right here maybe.

Well, I've got to admit it's kind of hard to argue with that "Drum machines are out of the question" thing. I had forgotten he'd said that.

Still, I've got to wonder about something. A drum machine is a piece of hardware that sits on your desk and uses software to allow you to manipulate digitally sampled drum sounds. A computer is also a piece of hardware that sits on your desk and uses software to allow you to manipulate digitally sampled drum sounds. As someone who doesn't have any experience with PC-based drums, is there some reason I can't ask for an explanation of why one is so dramatically superior to the other?

For a guy who said he wasn't trying to start an argument, you went pretty far out of your way to whip me for my curiosity. I'm just here to learn, man. I didn't come to ruin your day.

[I ate my bass]

Originally Posted by HapiCmpur

Well, I've got to admit it's kind of hard to argue with that "Drum machines are out of the question" thing. I had forgotten he'd said that.

Still, I've got to wonder about something. A drum machine is a piece of hardware that sits on your desk and uses software to allow you to manipulate digitally sampled drum sounds. A computer is also a piece of hardware that sits on your desk and uses software to allow you to manipulate digitally sampled drum sounds. As someone who doesn't have any experience with PC-based drums, is there some reason I can't ask for an explanation of why one is so dramatically superior to the other?

For a guy who said he wasn't trying to start an argument, you went pretty far out of your way to whip me for my curiosity. I'm just here to learn, man. I didn't come to ruin your day.

uhhh okay....that was far from a "whipping" dude.
what do you expect when you start to suggest the one theing that poster DOES NOT WANT?

[I ate my bass]

Originally Posted by amonte

Not to steer this topic off course, but how exactly do you make drum patterns with these programs? Do they come with some sort of sequencer? I was always under the impression that they were just a library of sounds.

theres a multitude of ways......
its so much more than a library of sounds.....and yes theres a sequencer in the program I suggested,i dunno about the others.

[HapiCmpur]

Originally Posted by I ate my bass

what do you expect when you start to suggest the one theing that poster DOES NOT WANT?

I didn't suggest the drum machine to the poster. MadAudio did. And since I'm trying to learn more about drum programs, I asked you to explain your response to MadAudio.

Originally Posted by I ate my bass

I certainly am not going to explain to you the 1000's of reasons why software-pc based drumming is better than an ALESIS 16 bit piece of shit......youll figure that out on your own hopefully.

and lastly...drum machines suck.

It's clear to me now that you're the kind of guy who doesn't feel the need to explain his opinions, so I'll be on my way now and I'll try to remember not to bother you again with any questions.

[MadAudio]

<channeling Jon Stewart> Settle down.


First of all I was not recommending a drum machine to goodbyebluesky (nice Floyd reference, BTW). I was just challenging his assertion that "they'll only allow a few short beats, with a couple of pre-programmed fills." That is just not true.

And yes, drum machines are rigid and it takes a shitload of time to add swing and accents into your patterns to get them even close to sounding natural. They're only good for sketchpad work.

[goodbyebluesky]

And yes, drum machines are rigid and it takes a shitload of time to add swing and accents into your patterns to get them even close to sounding natural. They're only good for sketchpad work.

You said it better than I could phrase myself before.

Besides, I want something that MAKES me program every beat, so I will have to give thought to everything being programmed and eventually put down to tape. (well, harddrive actually)

Eventually I want DFH 2. 100 bucks is not bad at all for a good program but still a lot of $$$ considering I need to replace a shure sm57 to be able to mic my guitar amp instead of going direct along with new cables all the way around for my whole setup. And I still don't have a mic preamp so...
for now I'm gonna check out Fruity Loops since I'm sure I can get it from someone, an I might buy DFH sample discs to expand the sounds. I think someone on this thread reccomended that actually.