Whom Amongst Us Records Direct ?

[Bonz]

I read Thread after Thread regarding room acoustics, proper monitoring, mic placements, etc. and the sometimes frustrations associated with that.

I, am seemingly one that does 99% of my projects running direct through the board out to my software. When I play back, I do seem to achieve the fatness of my sound(s). But there again, for some very strange can't figure this shit out reason, I can not get consistency with volume levels even though I try extremely hard to match setting from one project to the next.

For my drums, well there I'm bound by technology since I play a V-Kit and then there's the keyboards which are not amplified but patched in. So should I try the mic method or is there many of you that have conquered the direct mixing menace?

[apl]

I record everything I can direct because it's easier.

Maybe for your "fatness" issue you could add space artificially using reverb plug-in. It's tricky, though. Very easy to make mud.

And consistency in volume can be had by using a compressor/limiter plug-in. That's tricky, too.

[Bonz]

Originally Posted by apl

I record everything I can direct because it's easier.

Maybe for your "fatness" issue you could add space artificially using reverb plug-in. It's tricky, though. Very easy to make mud.

And consistency in volume can be had by using a compressor/limiter plug-in. That's tricky, too.

As for compressor/Limiters I haven't figured that out yet. I tend to lose top end . stuff like the sweet rides or soft crashes tend to get hidden when I use or possibly over use Compression.

[apl]

Here's a helpful article. Follow the links to parts two and three.

I found out that there were little peaks scattered throughout the recordings that were keeping me from turning it up. When I got Cubase LE, I could use the compressor/limiter to knock those down.

Kinda like the good old days, how much red is OK on the VU meters of the tape deck.

[IronFlippy]

I record almost everything direct as well, but mostly because I only have one SDC mic and lack the budget for anything else. I've never been able to get a nice sound from recording direct, but that's mostly due to my POS mixer. It always sounds too harsh for my liking. I like the sound of a mic'd instrument in a good room. You can set it up so that you don't need to EQ, or add reverb. I've always thought that the less you add in the mix, the better the mix. But it's all a personal preference.

[dwillis45]

Originally Posted by Bonz

I can not get consistency with volume levels even though I try extremely hard to match setting from one project to the next.

The best solution for getting consistent levels from song to song is to have the work mastered. Of course, that may not be an option if you're strapped for cash.

As far as direct recording, I record bass direct through a Sans Amp into a preamp. Likewise for keyboards, synths, and drum machines, although the SansAmp gets removed from the signal chain. Ideally, It would be great to have a dedicated amp/mic setup for everything and a good room for capturing room sounds. But, hey, you can only have so much equipment and space! I do mic my Rickenbacker 360 through a Fender Blues Jr. with an SM57 and my acoustic (Taylor 414) with an AT4050 or Shure SM81.

[RAMI]

How do you record vocals direct???

[Bonz]

Originally Posted by RAMI

How do you record vocals direct???

Who said anything about [direct] vocals ?? Unless you are asking how would you do it if you could ?

I just finished a project that came out pretty damn good which is probably the first time I did vocals in about 5yrs being that I am a jazz fusion musician.

[dwillis45]

Originally Posted by RAMI

How do you record vocals direct???

I use that voicebox effect! The problem is that I can only record one song (Peter Frampton's "Do You Feel Like We Do") over and over again.

[Ronan]

I sometimes record bass direct and sometimes synths. Other than that I tried to avoid direct recording at all costs. using a mic can be a little more work on the front end, but a lot less work when it comes to mixing and things just sound better getting mic'ed.

[beezelbubba]

The only time I use an open mic is if I'm doing vocals.Most of my stuff is instrumental,so almost everything is done in the box.

[Gorty]

Originally Posted by beezelbubba

The only time I use an open mic is if I'm doing vocals.Most of my stuff is instrumental,so almost everything is done in the box.

I myself record mainly instumentals, occassionally I may mic something up, but 99% of the time I go straight in, no room or external noise problems for me.

[JazzMang]

I hook up the firewire cable to my brain and record, compose, and produce the song in 2 seconds.

[Zed10R]

I do as much recording direct as possible. In order to keep consistent levels between projects and songs, you've got to be 100% certain that all of your settings on all of your gear stays exactly the same every time you use it. If you do this you will not have the fluxuation in volume that you describe.

Suggestions:

Don't "try to match settings from one project to the next" - create a blank project template that has all the presets you use, and begin every song with this same blank template. This way are SURE that every setting within the software itself is the same, every time. You no longer need to worry about software settings.

If you use effects, create your own custom presets. This is also a great help in achieving consistency. You no longer need to worry about effects settings.

Leave the settings on all your gear alone. Find the sounds you like, and stick with them. If you need to vary the sounds for whatever reason, write down all your settigns so you know exactly what to go back to when you need that sound again. There will no longer be any variations, so your sounds and levels will always be the same.

If you do all this and your levels are still inconsistent, you should call the support people for your software.

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Originally Posted by Zed10R

If you do all this and your levels are still inconsistent...

...it's most likely because the performers are not performing with the same energy or style, that their instruments are not exactly tuned or as responsive as they were the last session, that the temperature and humidity of the room have changed since the last time, or any number of a half-dozen other variables that come into play differently in every session.

Having a "template" as a starting point is an excellent idea, but to expect the engineer not to have to stray at least somewhat off the template settings to achieve a comparable sound to a previous session (or even the same session but a couple of hours earlier) is an unrealistic expectation for most project studio situations.

G.

[Zed10R]

Originally Posted by SouthSIDE Glen

...it's most likely because the performers are not performing with the same energy or style, that their instruments are not exactly tuned or as responsive as they were the last session, that the temperature and humidity of the room have changed since the last time, or any number of a half-dozen other variables that come into play differently in every session.

Having a "template" as a starting point is an excellent idea, but to expect the engineer not to have to stray at least somewhat off the template settings to achieve a comparable sound to a previous session (or even the same session but a couple of hours earlier) is an unrealistic expectation for most project studio situations.

G.

Hmmm..well...good points there...... and I agree. I did not consider ambient or envornmental issues. I was strictly talking about recording songs being performed by the same musicians for the same project. In that sense he should not have to stray far from his own custom template settings because the players themselves should either 1) be consistent enough to not need major tweaking 2) understand that if they are not consistent the recordings will show it 3) understand that there is only so much any recording engineer can do to create consitency out of inconsitent material.

But I agree that for every song some straying from template settings must occur in order to meet the songs needs. It is up to the engineer to be familiar enough with his own gear to know where he is and where he needs to go to achieve consistent levels.

[xfinsterx]

For guitars (mostly rock) ive found that a combination of a a di amp sim through a nice di box, and micing a cab with several mics can render some quite large results.

This works well on both bass and 6 string.

In general, i think it best to have many flavors to choose from.

Tracking the same vocal part with 3 different mics on 3 different takes.

Different mics with different amps, for the same riff.

Sorry if i strayed off the subject...

-Finster

[Bonz]

Originally Posted by Zed10R

I do as much recording direct as possible. In order to keep consistent levels between projects and songs, you've got to be 100% certain that all of your settings on all of your gear stays exactly the same every time you use it. If you do this you will not have the fluxuation in volume that you describe.

Suggestions:

Don't "try to match settings from one project to the next" - create a blank project template that has all the presets you use, and begin every song with this same blank template. This way are SURE that every setting within the software itself is the same, every time. You no longer need to worry about software settings.

If you use effects, create your own custom presets. This is also a great help in achieving consistency. You no longer need to worry about effects settings.

Leave the settings on all your gear alone. Find the sounds you like, and stick with them. If you need to vary the sounds for whatever reason, write down all your settigns so you know exactly what to go back to when you need that sound again. There will no longer be any variations, so your sounds and levels will always be the same.

If you do all this and your levels are still inconsistent, you should call the support people for your software.

This is a very interesting concept. Although I have created my customed Templates, what I haven't done in these is preserve the [Settings] so to speak. Now, I'm getting that you mean things like whatever plugin or effects settings that I used on a song that came out good, try to apply that to the next song and see if it translates well. Hmmm - Ok I've already admitted that I'm no Engineer but I am an experienced musician that knows about the 'Ghost In The Machine' . If I get a tonality that I think is cool and use that .. turn the box off (not touching anything) then turn it back on again the next day, it sounds slightly different. And I'm even talkin Presets as well.

Having said that however, I like your idea and I'm going to try it problem is, tonality colours a song as well (as you all know).
There's a SRV style song that I wrote which will be the Title song of my next CD. The original recording of it has this Raw Biker Bar sound to it and it added the key element that made this song kick but I would probably not wish to translate that structure onto another song for the Jazzier stuff that I do.

So you would say, Create another Template. (of course) but if I had created a Template BEFORE I wrote this song, I would not have gotten that colouration (sp) and this little tune would have a much more cleaner sound to it.

[Toker41]

I record everything direct including V-session drums, EXCEPT guitars. Only time I record guitar direct via V-amp pro, or Line6 pod pro is during preproduction, or scratch tracks. The only exception is acoustic guitars which I use a combination of direct and several mic's depending on the guitar.
Although I must say, I have found a few nice clean sounds on the Behringer V-amp pro that I might record direct. Sounds much better than the Line6 which sound so damn over compressed not matter what the hell you do with it.

[Bonz]

Originally Posted by Toker41

I record everything direct including V-session drums, EXCEPT guitars. Only time I record guitar direct via V-amp pro, or Line6 pod pro is during preproduction, or scratch tracks. The only exception is acoustic guitars which I use a combination of direct and several mic's depending on the guitar.
Although I must say, I have found a few nice clean sounds on the Behringer V-amp pro that I might record direct. Sounds much better than the Line6 which sound so damn over compressed not matter what the hell you do with it.

sounds to me like you have a simular setup as I do including the V-Session Kit and guitars. So I'm curious as to how your mixes are coming out? Do they translate well onto other playback systems large or small?

[Toker41]

Originally Posted by Bonz

sounds to me like you have a simular setup as I do including the V-Session Kit and guitars. So I'm curious as to how your mixes are coming out? Do they translate well onto other playback systems large or small?

The main problem I have is that when I play them back on ANY other system, there is ALWAYS way too much low end. I'm thinking it's an acoustic problem in the room I'm calling a "studio".
If you check out the first song on this link:

http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/...d=2878&alid=-1

It is an example of the results I'm getting. There are no drums in this one, as it is an acoustic song, but it's a good example of a mix of direct, and mic'd recording of acoustic guitars.

[apl]

Originally Posted by Toker41

The main problem I have is that when I play them back on ANY other system, there is ALWAYS way too much low end. I'm thinking it's an acoustic problem in the room I'm calling a "studio".

www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html

[Toker41]

Wow! Great reading! Sure enough, I need some bass traps! Thanks for the link.

[apl]

Originally Posted by Toker41

I need some bass traps!

www.realtraps.com

[Bonz]

Originally Posted by Toker41

The main problem I have is that when I play them back on ANY other system, there is ALWAYS way too much low end. I'm thinking it's an acoustic problem in the room I'm calling a "studio".
If you check out the first song on this link:

http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/...d=2878&alid=-1

It is an example of the results I'm getting. There are no drums in this one, as it is an acoustic song, but it's a good example of a mix of direct, and mic'd recording of acoustic guitars.

Dude ~ I have NO IDEA what you're talking about .. I listened to 3 songs (Hope Fades - Stomping Ground - and I forgot the title of the last ) and they were excellent. The balance was good the vocals were good and to be quite frank .. the songs were good as well. It sounded very close to what I'd like to achieve .. so where's the problem

Maybe some of the guys here that are real engineers should take a listen and I'd like to hear their cretique (sp) ...