Kick drum help

[RyanHubris]

I'm having a lot of trouble getting a really solid kick drum sound. I'm using a AKG D122 going into mixer into delta 1010 into sonar. I think my main problem is placement, because the kick sounds great to my ear. I took off the far head and removed the pillow I had inside and got little improvement, but I can still tell something is missing.

Any suggestions? Any placement tips or anything I'm missing would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[Halion]

How are you placing it then

[loki]

from what i understand, it's best to use a resonant head with an off-center hole and stick the 112 inside a few inches. keeping the muffling inside the drum would be a good idea too because you'll hear a lot of sustained bass frequences without it and the 112 will really highlight them.

[Farview]

A lot of this depends on your idea of a solid kick sound, the kick drum and the type of heads and tuning.

We need to know what you are going for, (style of music might help) what you have tried, and why that wasn't doing it for you.

[RyanHubris]

Originally Posted by Farview

A lot of this depends on your idea of a solid kick sound, the kick drum and the type of heads and tuning.

We need to know what you are going for, (style of music might help) what you have tried, and why that wasn't doing it for you.

The style is basic rock and roll (think that Led Zepplin sound!). Nothing death metal or hardcore or anything. No double kickers. The bass drum is a Ludwig Accent with an Aquarian Super Kicker II head.

[Farview]

If you are literally talking Zepplin, what is missing is most likely the room mic. That was a big part of that sound.

[Tim Brown]

Originally Posted by RyanHubris

The style is basic rock and roll (think that Led Zepplin sound!). Nothing death metal or hardcore or anything. No double kickers. The bass drum is a Ludwig Accent with an Aquarian Super Kicker II head.

If that's the case - try this, put the resonant head back on -WITHOUT any muffling inside it. Tune the resonant head up tight say... at least 2 "tight" turns of the tension rods to begin, and lay a blanket in front of the kick LIGHTLY touching the head. Slowly bring the tension of the batter head(the side you play on) up, and take "test" recordings at each tuning.
Bonham used no muffling inside the drum, and the drum was tuned fairly tight - especially the resonant head... then mic the drum from about 12" or so in front of the drum, and aimed about "beater" height.



Tim

[dr.colossus]

I always thought "bonham" tuning was tight batter head and loose reso. I agree in terms of muffling, for this sound I wouldn't use any at all, but start with a bit to tame some of those resonant feqs.

Personally, I find bass drum one of the hardest things to mix. Quite often I find if i get the b-drum sounding nice in mix, when I solo it its nothing like anything I'd every expect to be happy with.

Its also a good idea to d/l some of those bonham out-takes that were floating around the bb and use them as reference when mixing your drums.

[Tim Brown]

Originally Posted by dr.colossus

I always thought "bonham" tuning was tight batter head and loose reso. I agree in terms of muffling, for this sound I wouldn't use any at all, but start with a bit to tame some of those resonant feqs.

Personally, I find bass drum one of the hardest things to mix. Quite often I find if i get the b-drum sounding nice in mix, when I solo it its nothing like anything I'd every expect to be happy with.

Its also a good idea to d/l some of those bonham out-takes that were floating around the bb and use them as reference when mixing your drums.

No, he tuned all of his resonant heads really high - almost "snare drum" high. Jeff Ocheltree, Bonham's drum tech, has an audio file online where he describes how Bonahm tuned the drums.

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/johnbonhamtech.html

Below the video is an audio file of Ocheltree talking about What Bonzo used and how he tuned.

This is from his DVD on Drum Teching called "Trust Your Ears".




Tim

[RyanHubris]

Thanks a bunch everyone for the replies and tips.

"Personally, I find bass drum one of the hardest things to mix. Quite often I find if i get the b-drum sounding nice in mix, when I solo it its nothing like anything I'd every expect to be happy with."

This perfectly describes how I feel. Hopefully if I keep messing around I can get it to sound better in the mix.

[jmorris]

My 2 cents:
I have the beater head loose. I most cases use an older AKG D20 just inside the 5" hole about 1 "at 3 o'clock pointed aty the beater. The front head I have also loose. Blanket inside against the beater head,not touching the res. head at all . I have found that I can get more or less resonance by adjusting the tension of res. head. I however do not like this setup with my D112. For the D 112, I use same setup EXCEPT...I put the mic in about 6 " from beater, off axes a bit and EQ to taiste. I bost about 3800hz and cut 300hz. It is what works for my set.

[Bdrum]

Originally Posted by RyanHubris

The style is basic rock and roll (think that Led Zepplin sound!). Nothing death metal or hardcore or anything. No double kickers. The bass drum is a Ludwig Accent with an Aquarian Super Kicker II head.

Hey, I have the "Kickpac" and it Rules!
I'll send you some samples of a D112 going into a Yahama mx400
(sounds like a dirt bike...: )
Into three delta 4 4's into cubase,
and it Punches like Rockford Fosgates!!!