MD421-II/e609S mic comparison... chuggin with a Cobra Amp

[Sonixx]

Here is a MD421-II and e609S mic comparison...

MD421-II / e609S Comparison

Setup:
Cobra Amp - Crunch Channel
Cobra Cab - Greenbacks
Mic: MD421-II (Top Right Speaker) and e609S (Top Left Speaker)

The guitar was double tracked with each mic to a seperate track... so that's four tracks. Two Md421-II and two e609S

You'll hear the short riff twice in this MP3...

1st riff alternates between the MD421-II and e609S, back and forth. When a particular mic is heard, it's only that mic in both the Left and Right sides and alternates so the differences are apparent:

Time \ Left \ Right
00: MD421 MD421
09: e609S e609S
17: MD421 MD421
21: e609S e609S
25: MD421 MD421
33: e609S e609S
42: MD421 MD421

2nd riff is the MD421 on the Left and the e609S on the Right but not hard panned

Time \ Left \ Right
00:00 MD421 e609S

I use this micing setup often for heavy guitars. It gives a lot of flexibility during mixing...

[Halion]

I like the 609 better, but both are pretty good actually Nice tone

[WERNER 1]

It apears that the e609s is a bit brighter than the 421.......which is good to know....

I wonder how much of a difference there is when using the e609 (Black / originals) ??? Hmm....

Thanks for the great comparrison!!

I wish someone would do that with the SM57/e609 since this topic comes up quite a bit.

Rick

[Sonixx]

Thanks guys for listening and the comments...

If I get a chance I'll do one with the 57 and e609S... these two are a much larger contrast

-keith-

[Sonixx]

Originally Posted by Sonixx

2nd riff is the MD421 on the Left and the e609S on the Right but not hard panned

Time \ Left \ Right
00:00 MD421 e609S

I thought I'd clarify this... since each take is a MD421 and e609S stereo file

when the take is panned left, but not hard panned, the e609S is actually on the Right side to a lesser degree and...

when the take is panned right, but not hard panned, the MD421 is actually on the Left side to a lesser degree and...

This flexibility is nice... panning can be used like an EQ to some degree.

[Sonixx]

Four comments... this is pretty pitiful... come on, does no one here care to discuss this and/or micing heavy guitars

[giraffe]

of the 2 i like the 421 better (609 lacks definition in the bass, which it tries to make up for with presents in the hi's)
but the combo is good too.

[stanjanssen]

I like the 609S better, which I would have bought anyway b/c the MD421 is too expensive for a mic for me at the moment...
thanks for taking the time tho, looking forward to a E609S vs SM57 from you...

Stan.

[AGCurry]

Originally Posted by Sonixx

Four comments... this is pretty pitiful... come on, does no one here care to discuss this and/or micing heavy guitars

Actually... I care very little about miking heavy guitars. I really don't even like to listen to them.

[Sonixx]

Originally Posted by giraffe

of the 2 i like the 421 better (609 lacks definition in the bass, which it tries to make up for with presents in the hi's)
but the combo is good too.

Originally Posted by stanjanssen

I like the 609S better, which I would have bought anyway b/c the MD421 is too expensive for a mic for me at the moment...
thanks for taking the time tho, looking forward to a E609S vs SM57 from you...

Stan.

thanks guys...

i had considered a 609 and 57 A/B, but after virtually no response I had decided against it... when I get time I'll do one

[giraffe]

i did one a while ago and posted it here
it got an ok responce, but it's been down for a while now

[agrafuese]

Personally, I dig the 421 versions better - they sound a lot fuller on the low end, and the 609 sounds a little tinny to me. I actually just bought my first 421 a few days ago, but so far I've only used it to record my floor tom. I suppose I made a good choice, seeing as how the 421 responds well to low frequencies.

As for SM57, I haven't had a lot of luck using them on guitars. It could have been my placement or the amp I was using, but when I did an A/B with a 57 and this crappy $20 Nady vocal mic I had lying around, the Nady seemed to sound a lot fuller. The 57 was just too thin for me...different strokes for different folks, I suppose

-Agra

[donkeystyle]

i did a recording a while back where i used an md421 and an e609 on a guitar track, and there wasn't nearly the difference that you have. i wonder why. probably just placement, i guess.

[thehymns]

I like the first 10 seconds with the MD421.

[patsplat]

Hi...by itself,the MD421 was the clear winner to my ears/through my monitors in both clips...more body-fuller sound...even after throwing your clip into Samplitude and running a HP and LP filter on it.The combo of the two mics didn't sound bad though...just not as good IMO.

[Juggernaut]

I agree with everyone that liked the MD-421 better, not much to add on my part you all covered it well. Now what I want to hear is some sm-57/m201/md421 snare clips!

[Sonixx]

Originally Posted by patsplat

Hi...by itself,the MD421 was the clear winner to my ears/through my monitors in both clips...more body-fuller sound...even after throwing your clip into Samplitude and running a HP and LP filter on it.The combo of the two mics didn't sound bad though...just not as good IMO.

actually, I like the combo (2nd riff mix) better than the same mic in both the Left and Right (1st riff mix) for either the 421 or 609... though I feel it may be the difference in tone that does it for me... which may give a bigger sense of space

I usually end up rolling off the low-end some for the 421 when in a full mix

thanks for the comments...

[Sonixx]

Originally Posted by donkeystyle

i did a recording a while back where i used an md421 and an e609 on a guitar track, and there wasn't nearly the difference that you have. i wonder why. probably just placement, i guess.

both mics are pointed right at the dust cap and about 2 inches from the metal grill of the Cobra Cab

[Sonixx]

Originally Posted by agrafuese

... As for SM57, I haven't had a lot of luck using them on guitars. It could have been my placement or the amp I was using, but when I did an A/B with a 57 and this crappy $20 Nady vocal mic I had lying around, the Nady seemed to sound a lot fuller. The 57 was just too thin for me...different strokes for different folks, I suppose

I think it's the scooped nature of the 421 that I like...

I have heard some killer clips from others here using a 57, but I can't seem to capture that with mine.

[David Katauskas]

Sonixx, are you using any compression on that clip? I'm using my e609s in my signal path and am getting nothing near the frequency response that you are getting.

I know I need to upgrade my gear, but to not get anything near what you are and it is driving me bonkers.

Here's my chain:

EMG Pickup -> PSA-1 -> Crate ss combo (clean) -> e609s -> UB802 -> Soundblaster MP3+ USB

Can the crappy pieces in my signal chain really make things sound crappy?

[WERNER 1]

Are you saying that the sound coming out of the Crate is what you would consider good??..............Just checking.

Sometimes you gotta stick your head down where the mic is going to be to get a better idea of the sound that the mic actually sees.........uh...hears.

Rick

[David Katauskas]

Originally Posted by WERNER 1

Are you saying that the sound coming out of the Crate is what you would consider good??..............Just checking.

Sometimes you gotta stick your head down where the mic is going to be to get a better idea of the sound that the mic actually sees.........uh...hears.

Rick

I don't know...I'm only using the Crate thru the clean channel while using the PSA-1 as my pre-amp. Do you think the Crate is actually hosing my frequencies? Possibly the speakers?

I wish that I could play for someone live...I honestly don't know if the sound is actually any good. Unfortunately, it's all relative to my own experiences.

[Sonixx]

Originally Posted by David Katauskas

Sonixx, are you using any compression on that clip? I'm using my e609s in my signal path and am getting nothing near the frequency response that you are getting...

Hi David,

No compression but Vintage Warmer at a very very low setting, mainly for the low end... No EQ... I did roll off above 7500Hz.

Often I do run the Vintage Warmer at a much more extreme setting though. I seldom EQ post tracking other than Hi Pass at 60Hz, Low Pass at 7500Hz and maybe a Hi-Shelving at 10K +2db

Here's my signal chain:

EMG81 -> Cobra Head Crunch Chnl -> Hot Plate @-8db -> Cobra Cab Greenbacks -> SM57/e609S -> Mackie 1604vlz -> RME ADI-8 -> Samplitude

The Channel and Master Vols were at 3:00

The mics were aimed just ever so slightly off-center

When I track, I monitor with a pair of AKG 171 phones and set the amp with the phones on. I have no clue as to what the amp sounds like in the room... and don't care. Also, 9 out of 10 times I point the mic directly at the dust cover.

I'd like to understand what you consider crappy... can you post something?

-keith-

[David Katauskas]

Sonixx,
Here are 2 short clips:

This one is raw:
http://home.comcast.net/~katauskas/NoMore_raw.mp3

This one has EQ and a multi-band compression on the guitars to bring out some mids. There is also some compression on the mix.
http://home.comcast.net/~katauskas/NoMore_mixed.mp3

I really appreciate you taking the time to listen. Its just really missing something...?
Dave

[Sonixx]

Dave,

I just listened and my first impression is that it sounds like mainly preamp gain... I run my amps almost full bore because I prefer the tone of pushing the power section... can be much thicker.

I'm not familiar with your chain and amp.

How loud do you record?

What tone are you going for?

-keith-