HollowBody Guitars

[Kasey]

I'm in the market for a hollowbody electric guitar right now, but to be honest i dont know much about them. I'm looking for a real mellow tone, i have this idea of a sound in my head that is like a nylon string guitar.. only electric. I'm thinking one with just one neck on the neck will be fine tone wise (and hopefully cheaper). Also, are the harmonics on hollowbody electrics more like acoustics or normal electrics?

[apl]

I've been considering the Ibanez Artcore series, one without the sustain block and a trapeze tailpiece.

[Kasey]

whats a sustain block and trapeze tailpiece?

[apl]

An archtop hollowbody guitar may actually be only hollow on the sides or wings, or there could be a solid piece under the bridge, sometimes called a sustain block. For that old fashioned jazz box sound, the archtop acoustic was fitted with a pickup. The bridge sat on the top, and since the top wasn’t structurally stiff, the strings had to be terminated at the end of the guitar, and that tailpiece is called trapeze because it swings with the strings.

Unless I’m mistaken…

[faderbug]

i always thought it was called trapeze because of its shape.

[dragonworks]

one thing that has to be thought of before buying a hollow body is that they resonate alot when turned up and one must use the heel of ones pinkie to keep the strings that are not being played muted.

[Kasey]

are there hollow body guitars that have that sound I'm going for? The electric version of a nylon string sound?

[HapiCmpur]

Originally Posted by Kasey

are there hollow body guitars that have that sound I'm going for? The electric version of a nylon string sound?

I can't think of a guitar that will do this for you. The best you can really hope for (aside from miking a classical guitar) is the mellow tone of a hollow-body electric. The chief downside of hollow-bodies is that they tend to give off a lot of uncontrolled feedback at higher volumes. For that reason, Gibson started making semi-hollow guitars back in the '50s as a compromise between mellow tones and feisty feedback. As apl said, semi-hollows have a solid block of wood inside that runs along the centerline from the neck on down. That makes the internal chambers smaller, and it also provides a solid foundation on which to mount a secure tailpiece.

I think the bottom line regarding your question is this: If you put flat-wound jazz strings on a hollow-body or semi-hollow guitar, you will probably like the tone quite a bit. But it still won't sound much like a nylon string guitar.

Have you heard an anyone play an electric guitar with the tone you want?

[onlyfingers]

It might be time to visit a store with someone who knows a lot about amps and effects.

Godin makes a hollow-bodied nylon-stringed electric classical guitar. But the mellow sound you like may be achieved with a standard "jazz-box" archtop or a thin one like BB King's Lucile, with the right tone settings.

Investigate Line6's modeller guitars, too. The have acoustic and electric versions.

Maybe you'll get some specific help if you identify a particular tune that has the sound you are after.

[daav]

Originally Posted by Kasey

are there hollow body guitars that have that sound I'm going for? The electric version of a nylon string sound?

You may want to try "smooth" strings. One's where the windings are flat instead of round, like a violin or cello. I used these for a while, and though they aren't like nylon strings exactly, they have a smooth tone, with very little attack, and sounds somewhat muted.

[andydeedpoll]

I've hardly played any semi-hollow guitars, but i Have played a lot of the ibanez artcore instruments. i think they were really nice guitars - quite smooth sounding, comfortable to play not too clumsy feeling and a nice price.

the only problem i decided was that they looked quite vulnerable. my band tend to play in an upstairs club, with very dim lighting and lots of drunk Ska-heads around ... i was always worried that if someone stood on my case or decided to play it without asking then it'd be much easy to damage than a 'proper' electric would be. so i don't have one

if you decide to go that route, i think you'll be happy.

Andy

[onlyfingers]

Originally Posted by andydeedpoll

cheaper A-Y version for me...

Andy

(Sorry, off topic by quite a bit.)
The way it works in publishing is that the A -Y verson will cost more, especially if it is just for you. Also, I would say that the book is more valuable if it is comprehensive, and therefore provides guidance anywhere.

I have a set of maps for my county that are arranged alphabetically by town. On the map, the roads stop at the town border, so you have to open the book to a different page and find yourself again.

[HapiCmpur]

Originally Posted by onlyfingers

Godin makes a hollow-bodied nylon-stringed electric classical guitar.

I think we need to be careful with the terminology here rather than risk causing confusion. Does Godin really make an electric classical guitar with nylon strings, or does it make an acoustic nylon-string guitar with a built-in contact mic?

I'll probably be accused of (and guilty of) splitting hairs here, but I think a true "electric" guitar must have metal strings because nylon strings can't excite the pickups. Pickups aren't microphones; they create a magnetic field around the strings and then respond to the disturbances in that field caused by the vibration of the strings. Since nylon strings can't disturb a magnetic field, classical guitars have to be miked -- either by a mic on a stand or by a contact mic on the body -- to be amplified electrically.

I just did a quick cruise around Godin's website and didn't see anything about nylon-string electrics. If it's there and I missed it, let me know.

But the mellow sound you like may be achieved with a standard "jazz-box" archtop or a thin one like BB King's Lucile

Lucille's not only thin, she's a semi-hollow like the one I described earlier in this thread. I recently read that before Gibson started making semi-hollows, B.B. King used to stuff towels into his arch-top guitars to try to tame the feedback beast. Then he met Lucille, and it was love at first sight.

[onlyfingers]

Originally Posted by HapiCmpur

I just did a quick cruise around Godin's website and didn't see anything about nylon-string electrics. If it's there and I missed it, let me know.

.

Multitac Nylon. I haven't played one, but I heard one a couple of months ago at a coffee house and then at a "bistro-style" restaurant. In the right hands, what a sound. The guy at the coffee house (pen mic) played the Peter Gunn theme, a major accomplishment, in my opinion.

http://www.godinguitars.com/godinmultnylonsap.htm

[AlChuck]

Gibson has (had?) an electric nylon-string model, the Chet Atkins Classical Electric, which I tried once and are quite nice...

[Kasey]

Originally Posted by HapiCmpur

The chief downside of hollow-bodies is that they tend to give off a lot of uncontrolled feedback at higher volumes. For that reason, Gibson started making semi-hollow guitars back in the '50s as a compromise between mellow tones and feisty feedback. As apl said, semi-hollows have a solid block of wood inside that runs along the centerline from the neck on down.

I think that feedback just might play into part of the sound i'm looking for, at least for distorted tone. feedback on a clean tone wouldnt really play into the sound im looking for though. So if it only feeds back with high gain then that would be ok. does the semi-hollow body still have more feedback than a normal electric? And maybe this is a dumb question, but semi-hollow body guitars are the thinner ones that are hollow right??

Originally Posted by HapiCmpur

Have you heard an anyone play an electric guitar with the tone you want?

not really... although for distorted guitar i've heard a kay hollowbody from the 50's (it was thin though.. so a semi-hollowbody) come pretty close.

[ibanezrocks]

Originally Posted by HapiCmpur

I think we need to be careful with the terminology here rather than risk causing confusion. Does Godin really make an electric classical guitar with nylon strings, or does it make an acoustic nylon-string guitar with a built-in contact mic?

It makes acoustic nylon string guitars with a built in mic, and some preamp. I've played one before, and they are really really thin, not to much acoustics going on in there.

[gibsonguy09]

i played this washburn one the other day. I forget the model n such but it as about 700 dollars. It had a really rich tone. I like that better than my gibson hollowbody.

[bongolation]

Originally Posted by daav

You may want to try "smooth" strings. One's where the windings are flat instead of round, like a violin or cello. I used these for a while, and though they aren't like nylon strings exactly, they have a smooth tone, with very little attack, and sounds somewhat muted.

You mean "flatwounds."

I think they're a pretty flawed concept, as only three of the strings are flatwound, and flatwounds are really dead. The effect when you arpeggiate a chord is

THUD-THUD-THUD-TWANG-TWANG-TWANG

Pretty stupid-sounding.

[HapiCmpur]

Originally Posted by Kasey

does the semi-hollow body still have more feedback than a normal electric?

All other things being equal, yes. As you know, however, a lot of variables also affect feedback. So the real issue is whether or not you can control feedback in your typical performance situation.

I've been playing an ES-335 since the mid-'80s and it has never once given me feedback problems. Then again, I don't use feedback as part of my "sound" anyway, so my equipment is never set up to be on the edge of feeding back. Somebody who needs feedback on demand may well have a problem controlling a semi-hollow like mine. And a fully hollow arch-top would probably be right out of the question for that person.

but semi-hollow body guitars are the thinner ones that are hollow right??

Exactly.

for distorted guitar i've heard a kay hollowbody from the 50's (it was thin though.. so a semi-hollowbody) come pretty close.

Go test drive some semi-hollow bodies, Kasey. I think you'll find them extremely versatile. That said, however, I still don't think you're going to get that nylon string sound unless you buy a nylon string guitar with a built-in mic.

Originally Posted by bongolation

I think they're a pretty flawed concept, as only three of the strings are flatwound, and flatwounds are really dead.
Pretty stupid-sounding.

I just bought my first set of flat-wounds and plan to put them on this weekend. I'll let you know if I have the same experience you did. By the way, can I ask what kind of guitar you used them with?

[Kasey]

Originally Posted by bongolation

I think they're a pretty flawed concept, as only three of the strings are flatwound, and flatwounds are really dead.

i know this might sound weird as hell, but i cannot stand most strings, especially when they are new because they are so damn bright. that sound might be something i'd like. i guess with strings you can get mixed up in terms and their connotations, but i prefer a 'dark' sounding string, which i suppose may or may not just be considered a 'dull' or 'dead' sounding string to someone else. did that make sense?

[Kasey]

oh yea, what about my question about the harmonics?

[Hi_Flyer]

I dunno about harmonics... but I'm kinda confused, you want a nylon-string calssical guitar sound, but with distortion?!?! that sounds kinda weird. What kind of music are you playing?

The best thing you could do is go to a guitar shop and play some of the hollow-bodies in order to see what they sound like, tone-wise. Its hard to describe on a BBS if you don't have a frame of reference. Hollow bodies can be all over the map as far as tone: jazz, rockabilly, punk, rock... You usally don't see metal guys playing them because they will feedback with ALOT of distortion, but I've found feedback (even when playing through an amp with alot of gain) to be much more manageable than you would think.

There are other variables, like the pickups for example... I have a Gretsch with Filtertrons, which are very twangy compared to pickups on a hollowbody jazz-box, and they are relatively low output too.

[daav]

Originally Posted by Kasey

i know this might sound weird as hell, but i cannot stand most strings, especially when they are new because they are so damn bright. that sound might be something i'd like. i guess with strings you can get mixed up in terms and their connotations, but i prefer a 'dark' sounding string, which i suppose may or may not just be considered a 'dull' or 'dead' sounding string to someone else. did that make sense?

bongolation is right of course, he is just giving his opinion on the sound. It is good to note that you don't get any difference in the G, B, and high E. I did like the tone from them, at least for while.
They are just a style that you might like, and for <$20 to try it out (assuming it doesn't totally screw your intonation and require a whole new setup) you can do so fairly easily. Some things would not be well suited for them, others would give you a very mellow, muted sound, and the bottom three satrings definately don't ring as brightly at all.

Daav

[ggunn]

Originally Posted by HapiCmpur

(Answering the question ]of whether a semi-hollowbody guitar is hollow but thin)

Exactly.

I believe you are mistaken. The term "semi-hollowbody" refers to what an earlier poster said about the centerline of the guitar not being hollow but having hollow chambers above and below it. Thinner hollowbody guitars are usually called "thinline" guitars. See http://www.provide.net/~cfh/gibson4.html