A lesson I heard about buying gear

[adclark]

I heard about "future producers" seminar somewhere that happened around 15 years ago. The seminar had around 10 people who brought their tracks/mixes and had them critiqued by a professinal producer/engineer. He also lectured on basic recording techniques.This was a 2 day hotel/dinner type gathering. I believe the "expert" was someone who worked with Phil Romone. Anyway, the expert brought in a mix he did and played it for the group right off the start. It was a really great sounding track and he promised to explain at the end how he achieved the overall sound. People played their tracks and explained how they got their sound (equipment, effects, etc) or problems they were having. Some even bragged about expensive gear they owned or rented. Thr expert gave his suggestions and opinions. At the end the expert played his track again and he went throught the process. What amazed everyone was this: It was recorded in his office on a Tascam or Fostex portable 8 track cassette studio using only an SM57 and a lower cost Sony condensor mic. I'm not certain if the track had drums etc..(i didn't hear it..just heard about the story). The only effects used were a bit of the EQ built into the recorder (probably hi, mid, lo). His lesson was..learn to get professional results on cheaper amateur equipment. Learn about basic mic positions, panning, and room placement. Master this first and get professional results. Once you do upgrade to more expensive equipment, your professional sounding tracking techniques will be more enhanced. On the other hand, better equipment can also highlight your mistakes more. I thought this was a very good story. I'm in a "tight" money situation now (wife in graduate school). I'm spending my money on reading recording books and learning the basics with my basic equipment.

[regebro]

This is very true. My experive also tells me that you should start with reasonably cheap equipment, and only upgrade when it is the equipment, and not you, that is a hinderance for getting the sound you want.

[andydeedpoll]

great!

another brilliant example of the "crap in = crap out" "you can't polish a turd" theory.

groovy. like it.

Andy

[dwillis45]

Reasonable advice unless you just like to play with equipment or you're a "gear slut." With all the philosophy that gets dispensed on these forums I imagine some people might actually feel guilty about lusting after equipment. There really isn't anything wrong with buying good equipment unless you want to adopt some type of Marxist perspective or you're neglecting other responsibilities like starving children. In fact, here's some more philosophy about buying gear: Good equipment probably won't hurt your sound! Besides, you can certainly take this kind of stuff to an extreme. One could argue, for example, that you shouldn't even record unless you can write and perform a decent song with intelligent lyrics. Forget cutting your teeth on a four track and an SM57. Change your strings, tune your drum kit, practice, get some voice lessons, and learn how to write lyrics and fine tune an arrangment!

[Warhead]

I started with a 4 track cassette when I was 18. It's all I could afford, in fact I went in half and split it with a friend. Nowadays for the same money, if somebody has a decent computer with a Firewire port you can have so much more.

War

[warble]

Originally Posted by Warhead

I started with a 4 track cassette when I was 18. It's all I could afford, in fact I went in half and split it with a friend. Nowadays for the same money, if somebody has a decent computer with a Firewire port you can have so much more.

War

I started on Yamaha 4-track when I was 17, that and a cheap Alesis MicroVerb and mixed down to a Pioneer 3-head cassette from the late 70's. Man, those were fun days of experimenting....and bouncing tracks about a dozen times

True about the Firewire and a decent computer! If you have software and a decent computer, a nice firewire device would cost about as much as I paid for the Yamaha 4-track.

[travelin travis]

when i was 18 i bought a tascam porta 02 (quickly traded in for a 424 mkII) and a $25 audio technica dynamic. i have'nt really improved my skills since then. at least back then i did cool things like reverse guitar and slowed down ceiling fan sounds for helicopter effects. i'm on a pc now with tons of options and i don't record much of anything.

[adclark]

In some ways the Porta 4 track was more "fun" to use. I use to get neat sounding results. I especially like the way tape could distort if the levels are pushed hard. The one big issue was tape hiss (even with Dolby) got duplicated at evry bounce.

[treymonfauntre]

this looks like a chain letter

[dwillis45]

Originally Posted by adclark

In some ways the Porta 4 track was more "fun" to use. I use to get neat sounding results. I especially like the way tape could distort if the levels are pushed hard. The one big issue was tape hiss (even with Dolby) got duplicated at evry bounce.

Plus, the four track was like a gift from god! One day you're trying to record multiple tracks using two cassette recorders and then, viola, you're recording four tracks. The four track was probably the single most important innovation in home recording--even with all of today's digital equipment. Very similar to the mass production of the typewriter. It took us from handwriting to typewriting and eventually led to electric typewiters, dedicated wordprocessors, and computer-based word processing.

[earworm]

cool story and its a good lesson indeed,
i used to collect gear, i just bought so much stuff and most of it just dissapointed me, what i learned by myself is that its better NOT to have all that equipment instead of having all that cheapass junk,
this is another story isnt it?
i used to work with extreme low budget stuff, and i always got great reactions on my work, since people knew i was using crappy mics/mixer and everything,
then there came the day that i started updating everyth!ing, adding compressors, effects, more mics, all cheap stuff, but lots of it,
and the quality of my recordings didn't improve amazingly,
so i got rid of lots of the cheap stuff and replaced it with a few nice machines, started concentrating on "recording" and mic placement and wow, that impressed me,
even now i'm trying to sell two of my lowbudget compressors cause i can just get better results if i don't use them !

so yeah, train yourself with as little equipment as possible,
and then save up money to buy one, two or three fat machines

[Phildo]

Heh...25 years down the line, and i've just got my first computer for recording on to (although that's not what my wife thinks it's for...).

I started with an old mono tape deck, moved up to 2 stereo decks, and then bought a beat-up Tascam 244. God, did I use that machine. Eventually, it died, and I moved up to a Fostex M80, which was a nice little machine. Then I had a Fostex DMT8, with all it's 15 track-minutes. The audio quality was superb, though. Eventually, I got a Roland VS1680with 2 FX cards, which has been the mainstay of my studio for many years.

Now I'm having to struggle with Cubse SX on my shiny new laptop, with all its more-or-less unlimited numbers of audio tracks, effects, synths and god-knows-what.

I'm glad I did things this way, though. I started off by learning how to get the best results I could with whatever equipment was to hand. Gradually, as my equipment improved, so did my technique - because I already had the basics in place - through necessity, I've learned how to get a decent drum sound with anything from a multi-mic setup to a couple of Radio Shack PZMs, the best way to mic a string quartet, what mics suit what type of voices, what instruments tend to conflict in a mix and loads of other stuff.

There's still loads to learn - I'm nowhere near the level of most of the guys on here, but it's been fun geting this far and if I'd had access to even a tenth of what I've got now when I started out all those years ago, I don't think I would have.

If you're gonna build a good house, you need strong foundations...

[guitarboi89]

okay i dont have half/any of the skill/experience that alot of you do but heres where i am now.
i have recorded for 2 years with a small diaphram condenser form maplin (£20) and a dynamic i got given... not even of the quality of the karaoke mics u get, running through my guitar practice amp into my pc soundcard. i have recorded all my music gcse compositions on my pc and they all sound great for the stuff i have, when i listen to my fisrt recordings it makes me laugh soo much, but thats the thing... i have improved.
but this summer i decided "i really like recording.. i might spend a bit of money on it" so now i have a m-audio audio buddy, and am ordering a studio projects b1 pretty soon, but i have decided thats enough for a while.
i am planning on recording a couple of acoustic tracks for my friends bands and recording my a level pieces with what i will have, because over the time i have realised that i keep getting better at recording as time goes by even with the same equipment.

i dont know whether this has any meaning to anyone.. i think what im trying to say is i agree with the "lesson about buying gear"

[travelin travis]

Originally Posted by dwillis45

Plus, the four track was like a gift from god! One day you're trying to record multiple tracks using two cassette recorders and then, viola, you're recording four tracks. The four track was probably the single most important innovation in home recording--even with all of today's digital equipment. Very similar to the mass production of the typewriter. It took us from handwriting to typewriting and eventually led to electric typewiters, dedicated wordprocessors, and computer-based word processing.

yes it was definitely a very cool thing to get my first 4 track.

[MISTERQCUE]

.........that's all well and good as long as you're not incorporating a Behringer board in your set-up.

[mikeh]

I started many, many years ago bouncing 2 track to 2 track. Got one of the 1st 4 track cassettes (Fostex). Then went to 8 track 1/4" reel. Then to ADAT and now use a computer.

Each purchase was to increase tracks which eliminated bouncing tracks (a significant improvement in both sound quality and mixing freedom.

While I stated with a very basic, old, used revrb unit, I gradually upgraded to better effects/precessors, but only when I fel it would improve the final product (vs. simply to buy new gear).

I still feel I'm 2 to 5 years behind the leading trends - but that's OK since I use what I have to the best of my abilities.

Candidly, I thought I did better work with a 4 track and one reverb (much more creative even if the end quality was not as "good" as I can now get).

[Kasey]

i stand by this idea firmly.


i started getting interested in sound about 4 years ago. i had no recording equipment what so ever though. all i had was a little cassette deck recorder with a little built in microphone. i had started playing music with friends not too long before, and so we would all go in to our practice space with drums and amps (we didnt bother with vocals yet unless it was acoustic). and we would put the mic in the middle of the room to pick up all of us.

My version of mixing was putting the mic closer or further away from drums or amps. I started getting the hang of it though, attempting to get everything eq'd and compressed well before it even hit the microphone. I would put my ear by where the microphone would be, and i would try to get my guitar's tone to match up with the bass tone so that we werent fighting over similar frequencies. then i would add in the drums and fix up the guitar and bass to fit the drums in. i got fairly good at it in my opinion.

Later on i aquired an mp3 player (one of the first ones to come out.. the thing was a brick). It had a built in voice recorder. The mic on it was a little better than the cassette recorder so we began using that instead of the cassette deck. I still tried to get everything right before the sound reached the microphone, but now we could load it onto a computer and edit it using some audio freeware. it was starting to not sound so bad.

later on i got a 4 track, and some cheap software that was just a little better than the freeware before. this was awesome. i felt so liberated. i also bought a dynamic microphone. Suddenly was making recordings that, in my opinion, were on par with some of the higher end independent releases.

Now i'm using an ADAT with a few more microphones, a 16 channel mixer, only now theres no computer. I'm loving it. my mixes are getting better all the time. My set up is still pretty modest but its definetly the knowledge of recording that counts the most.

[reshp1]

I started on a walkman, then the standard window's sound recorder (figured out a workaround for the 1-minute limit by hitting record after each auto stop until the file was long enough, and saving file as a template to be recorded over), then "borrowed" a portastudio-don't remember which one, but it was one of the 4-tracks playback, but only 2 tracks simultaneous record ones, then up'ed to a minidisc 4 track, then figured out how to bounce minidisc recorded files into cakewalk pro studio for editing and effects, then bit the bullet and got an mBox, and finally settling on a 002R. I don't see anymore upgrades in the near future, maybe a nice ribbon mic or pre.
My skills have improved with the equipment, but not because of the equipment. Well, with the exception of decent monitors and acoustical treatment, which should be very high up on the equipment wish list IMO. It seems as I've come into more and more money to buy new shit, I have less and less time I have to record. Such is life...

[giraffe]

i can't wait for this conversation to happen again ten years from now


"i can remember when the best a home studio owner could do was 32 tracks in a protools rig, man have we come a long way"

[easychair]

Originally Posted by dwillis45

Plus, the four track was like a gift from god! One day you're trying to record multiple tracks using two cassette recorders and then, viola, you're recording four tracks. .

That was my bag- two cassette recorders, the old "handhelds", about the size of a lunchbox. Record on one with the shitty internal mic, play back the rhythm through the shitty speaker and jam along, record that player and my lead onto the other cassette deck with the shitty mic.

Then, a 4-track Tascam Portastudio, for the low price of $1200 in 1983 dollars.

[Kasey]

Originally Posted by giraffe

"i can remember when the best a home studio owner could do was 32 tracks in a protools rig, man have we come a long way"

haha... thats funny and strangely depressing at the same time...

[mawtangent]

Originally Posted by TravisinFlorida

when i was 18 i bought a tascam porta 02 (quickly traded in for a 424 mkII) and a $25 audio technica dynamic. i have'nt really improved my skills since then. at least back then i did cool things like reverse guitar and slowed down ceiling fan sounds for helicopter effects. i'm on a pc now with tons of options and i don't record much of anything.

Man all of this hits so close to home........I did the bouncing thing with the cheap shoebox cassette recorder and cassette boombox also (using the "onboard" microphones)...now 20 years later I've got 10 times more recording power than I ever dreamed I would ever have and it's "someday I'm going to really start a grand musical project"...

I don't know what it is...maybe I have come to realized over time how little "perfomance" talent I have (writing the song, playing the instrument, singing the vocals)...that is, maybe the recording side far outpaced the thing that is to be recorded and showed it up for what it is, or the focus on recording quality created a lack of focus on the performance (the thing to be recorded)...

maybe it just the process of time...when you are a kid you sometimes (ignorantly) think you are making some kind of great discovery that no one else knows about, but over time you find that there are a lot of people doing the same thing, maybe that takes the exitement out of things...

I have concluded, above all, you have to have (for lack of a better word) "heart" to keep creating...something inside that makes you keep creating when no one else around you (spouse, friends) has any interest in what you are doing ("ohhh, another song?"), something that makes you try to create a new song, even after spending 10 hours on a song that you don't even like anymore. Something whose main goal is not to achieve "marketablity" .

I have lost a lot of heart myself, but I can't seem to totally toss the music thing away...I tell myself that, at this point in my life I have no interest in really exploring some other "hobby" like snow-skiing or something...and there is still that feeling of nobility or sacredness that I associate with creating a song, something far above watching TV or all the other "spectator" activities that use up so much of people's time. We all need to find that kid again who couldn't wait to get at making a new song.

[earworm]

hehehe

[dwillis45]

The last four track I used literally ran on rubber bands! One day the cassette failed to playback so I opened the machine only to find a broken belt. The unit was beyond it's warranty date and I was too lazy to send it to an authorized service center. So I searched for a rubber band that looked like it would fit and soon I was back making bad music! I hope my DAW never breaks down!

[travelin travis]

Originally Posted by mawtangent

Man all of this hits so close to home........I did the bouncing thing with the cheap shoebox cassette recorder and cassette boombox also (using the "onboard" microphones)...now 20 years later I've got 10 times more recording power than I ever dreamed I would ever have and it's "someday I'm going to really start a grand musical project"...

I don't know what it is...maybe I have come to realized over time how little "perfomance" talent I have (writing the song, playing the instrument, singing the vocals)...that is, maybe the recording side far outpaced the thing that is to be recorded and showed it up for what it is, or the focus on recording quality created a lack of focus on the performance (the thing to be recorded)...

maybe it just the process of time...when you are a kid you sometimes (ignorantly) think you are making some kind of great discovery that no one else knows about, but over time you find that there are a lot of people doing the same thing, maybe that takes the exitement out of things...

I have concluded, above all, you have to have (for lack of a better word) "heart" to keep creating...something inside that makes you keep creating when no one else around you (spouse, friends) has any interest in what you are doing ("ohhh, another song?"), something that makes you try to create a new song, even after spending 10 hours on a song that you don't even like anymore. Something whose main goal is not to achieve "marketablity" .

I have lost a lot of heart myself, but I can't seem to totally toss the music thing away...I tell myself that, at this point in my life I have no interest in really exploring some other "hobby" like snow-skiing or something...and there is still that feeling of nobility or sacredness that I associate with creating a song, something far above watching TV or all the other "spectator" activities that use up so much of people's time. We all need to find that kid again who couldn't wait to get at making a new song.

very well said. i think what you said about losing focus in performance for recording quality hit the nail on the head. i also think that if you have that creative side in you, it's always there. you just have to work on bringing it back out. putting your heart into music is'nt the easiest thing to do sometimes. if you're spending 90% of your free time into researching and learning gear, there just is'nt enough time and energy left for writing and playing music. i know my playing skills and creativity have gone to hell since i started setting up my little home studio, which was just late last year. every once in awhile though, i'll just sit and play for 5 or 6 hours and it reminds me why i started messing with the whole recording thing in the first place. i'm nearly finished getting all my neccessities together and hope to get back to writing and playing very soon. i hope you will be doing the same.